As title said, could someone or a bunch of players, test out each weapon ability, rate em from 1 to 100, where 100 is ALOT of dmg.. Ofc some abilities got buffs/debuffs, and not only do dmg, but also debuffs the opponent or buff yourself, so please note that aswell.
On Magery i want to know how the new SDI cap works, is the dmg still far too low, and what do you think about the magery situation, what should be changed?
Also wont be on much during this weekend, father coming to visit *had ALOT to clean up*.. but on another note.. hey i can see my actually desktop..
I think im free on Monday, so could perhaps do a PvP event on Sunday, around 5-6PM EST, feel free to vote what type of PvP event that would be, and ofc if you are all able to compete in it.. 1vs1, 2 vs 2, 3 vs 3.. FFA.. Ship battle, normal arena, only magery and no equips?.. well the voice is yours..
Other then that, have a happy easter
edit: will also start the spawning of easter eggs etc tomorrow.. Mostly in random felucca dungeons (and maybe one in luna.. not sure yet)
i think sdi should be capped at 150% for pvp.. the old cap was 25% and health bars used to be capped at 187hp, now we have over 400hp which is more than double.. as such the first 100% sdi will double the spell power to match the double health and then the original 25% doubled for a total of 150%. that would make magery similar in pvp to what it used to be (still slightly less tbh) but worth using.. it used to be cool throwing out the off explosion/flamestrike combo before running in with your wep but the cast times dont match the damage now so its not worthwhile to cast (but you know this, thats why your asking ;)
while were at it i think enhance potions should go back to 100%.. it used to be 100% then it got cut down to 50 then our health bars got doubled so i think enhance pots should go back to match.
as for wep abilities ill think further before writing, of course they shouldnt all be equal, some should be more usefull than others and some more situational, not all abilities need to do big damage, it takes skill to use the right ability at the right time, plenty have much more specific uses like heal stoppers etc that dont need lots of damage but can allow you cause more damage in other ways.
Like TP said there are some weapon abilities that are not supposed to do high damage but work in different ways - depending on the situation. So i won't waste my time on those. I think they are working fine.
I will just point out those which - besides also being "situation based" - have also the intention to do real damage on a player.
(100 = A LOT OF DAMAGE as in too much!, 50 = average, not too good, not too bad, 1 = totally poor^^)
(this is just an impression... some might see this totally different, i think it also depends on what you personally prefer)
(also: i will also point out the abilities of the magical shortbow, although i don't think it's the weapon of choice in pvp^^)
Armor Ignore* = 100
Concussion = 50
Mortal Strike** = 60
Bleed*** = 40
Crushing Blow = 50
Double Strike = 70
Talon Strike = 20
Lightning Arrow = 35
Psychic Attack = 30
Double Shot = 50
Moving Shot = 25
* Armor Ignore, imho, is still imba in pvp compared to other abilities (damagewise). It makes it just too easy to deal damage and kill someone with only a few hits and not even casting, maybe a curse or some poison.. but that's it.
** Since Mortal's main purpose is not to deal damage (but also to deal damage) i don't see any reason to tweak it in any way.
*** Poor damage, in my opinion. That's a shame for such a nice ability.
Spell Damage Increase:
I think 150% would be too much. I agree with your calculations, ThatPerson, but you have to think about the possibilities with a cap of 150%:
You will be able to kill someone with a FB spam only.
I would suggest not going higher than 100% cap in PvP.
I think like 90% SDI cap would make magery more useable in field, as it works now pretty well in close combat but field... Only makes others fingerslip. I think 150% would be waaayy too much, cos if you spam fireball at someone, he has 5% chance to heal himself... Imagine a fireball spam, with dbl the dmg it has now. Which would be around 50dmg per fireball. That's like 9 fireballs to finish a player. Also had to add that FB used to do about 11-16 dmg, so we can count that that's AT LEAST 16 fireballs to finish someone with the 187hp, plus at that time we were able to use bandages if fireball spammed. Now we can't.
i dunno tys i was actually being conservative with 150%, those calculations were based on a player that has double the old 187 health, 400 is more than double and many have much more than that, i myself have 474 hp so even at 150% the relative chunk of my health bar that would be taken from a spell is far less than it used to be with old health bars and you couldnt fb spam someone to death back then, but balance is a process so we shall see :)
also noll ill say if you want to make mage chars more viable (and its a good idea that i agree with) maybe you should take a look at the spell "mind blast". i remember in old uo those words "por corp wis" were my most feared as a dexer because it does damage based on the difference between the caster and targets int.. because on this shard everyone makes a dexxer with magery sideline people tend to plough as many stats into str and dex as possible and whatevers left goes into int, as a result peoples int levels are broadly similar so mind blast is ineffective.. if that spell still does damage based on the diff between caster and targets int, but scales it up to a higher level it would mean making a mage char who sacrifices str and dex in the persuit of extremely high int a worthwhile endeavour as his mind blast would do scary damage to dexxers .. just a thought..
Here is my problem with increasing the SDI cap that far.
SDI is imbuable via runes with a stat value of 15 on 4 pieces of jewelry, your talisman, and your spellbook as far as I know. The cap should therefore be no higher than 75. Not everyone wants SDI on their talisman, they might be tempted to switch dress when setting up spell dumps via tali or equip a book into their hands which i consider to be a fair tradeoff for the SDI.
If you have much more SDI than 90 as is when equipped as described it is due to basically one of three reasons:
-You have donated for stats on your shroud. You benefit from increased farming with the uncapped SDI during PvM.
-You have a set of mace and shields with stats now not possible to imbue on them, as they were previously considered jewelry and are now imbued under armor characteristics. Its still fine, your a vet, things change, your PvM farm is increased.
-You have a crystalline ring which has SDI increase on it. A ring obtained from a mob only spawnable in a PvE area. Again, for your time, the reward is increased farm.
PvP is built around balance, you cant increase things 100-150% and not expect problems. Further, I feel it unwise to cap the PvP SDI at such an otherwise unattainable level.
I am not against increasing the SDI cap slightly for pvp. Let me ask you if we can maybe arrive at the same conclusion: an increase in the effectiveness of magery by a different tactic.
Simply add or adjust the damage modifer for PvP spell damage. This way nothing has to be tweaked on the PvM side. Maybe the modifier should be 1.5-2.0, it will need to be tested. PvP SDI cap can remain the same or be increased slightly. The end result is more damage gets through per spell to the player, making magery more viable. This achieves the same goal without the problem of requiring every available slot be used for SDI which reduces character choice. Everyone following the same template is one of the problems we have now, as TP pointed out.
Donation rewards should be limited in the affect they can have on PvP interactions. This shard has a nice balance in that MOST of the donation items are luxury or make you better at grinding the PvM train. You don't want to stray into Pay2Win levels for PvP. Many people will find that unacceptable.
I was just thinking
Necklace ring bracelet earring and taily at 15 is 75 sdi. Add a scrappers spell book 100 sdi. Just off the top of my head 100 is easily attainable
Edit- now that I think about it my old sdi suit included midnight bracers and spell woven britches which both have sdi also
I concede to Biggums 100 should be pvp cap then. Most people will run around with the items you mentioned imbued with SDI. It gives those actively using a book a tactical advantage over those wielding a weapon etc. when mana dumping.
On a side note no one should actively fireball you to death, they should die to your magic arrow and harm.
Biggums, my point is not that u can't get higher SDI, it is that magery should be viable in pvp. We do not want to tinker and make some 400% SDI fad of the month template. It simply opens of a can of worms that isnt there with uncapped PvM SDI. No one wants to be one shot in full tier gear by weapons/magery.
Cheers for bringing in some light on the whole imbue bit, pay2win is something I detest.. Could perhaps take a look in eval int calculations.. Rewarding 110/120% skill bonus to dmg.. We will see.
I have an idea for some strange armours and weapons for those that read "yee ole dungeon" thread. But thats another story.. Equips that can change the cap itself.. But on equip and perhaps even deequip should hurt the player.. Ah well, let's focus on magery n abilities now..
And Tys, I increased the dmg on bleed, still not enough? Even if it does double dmg in pvm n against vampires?
OK I going to weigh in on some stuff that I would like to see. Everyone always talks about the same specials. Let's see some of the other ones do something. Let's see people not use the same things over and over. There is a lot to this game that is not being utilized.
The SDI cap, now mind you this is talking with others, shouldn't be over 60-70%. The reason being that at the moment harm does 23-27 dmg and a harm spam would destroy someone at 150 SDI. This also applies to anything 3rd circle and below.
Now as for specials.
I'm not goin to talk about the ones everyone uses as most people have shown what they can do. Tys pointed out most of them and I agree with most of what he said about those specials, aka bleed should be better and AI is to much.
Block - kind of pointless.
Defense Mastery - would be nice if it raised you resists more. Not just phy since no one uses that in PvP.
Nerve Strike - Back in the day this used to be the way to go. I'm talking the shit. Everyone had a Bokuto. It would be nice if it did a decent amount of dmg along with the para. Also based on Bushido. 120 bush = more dmg.
Talon Strike - DMG over time based on ninjitsu. Should be better then bleed at 120 ninja.
Feint - Raise DCI even if hit with lower defense
Dual Wield - I really like this special. It doesn't seem to work on this shard. I have tested it over and over. It should twice as fast as you SSI but decrease the dmg over time for 2 secs. I've used it on other shards and it's nasty if it works correctly.
Armor Pierce - I know bows are kind of pointless in PvP (they barely hit) but when using a Sai I feel this should do more damage then AI for the fact that it is a 2 handed wep (that no one uses) and it requires bushido or ninjitsu also.
Bladeweave - It uses a random special. I haven't messed with this much. No opinion.
Double shot - was nerfed for a reason
Force arrow - honestly haven't tried
force of nature - haven't messed around with but if anyone has the gutsto PvP with a wild staff I feel they should get the STR buff it says and actually do more DMG with an effect
I'm not going to post about the last 2 garg specials because i have never ran a garg.
All of this is done with some testing and my opinion. I am very willing to listen to constructive criticism but don't flame without reason. I want to see other weps used rather then the normal hammer pick/ bone harvester / oranate axe
If I missed anything or need better testing please explain where.
- I think so far we can agree that Armor Ignore is still WAY too high (dmg) in PvP. It doesn't make sense to me why a single ability should be overpowered and do a ton more of damage than any other ability or spell is able to achieve.
- And yes, Noll, Bleed is still sucky. If there wouldn't be the graphic effect and the message of a successful hit... you wouldn't notice it.
- Most of us (except for TP, sorry lol) can agree that 150% sdi cap for PvP would cause problems. Fast spells would be too valuable because they could just kill someone if spammed. I don't think this is the idea behind tweaking magery, is it?
Imho the key to kill someone with magery only is to combine the spells, not to spam one or two of them.
So maybe try
MAX. 100% and don't go beyond that. Maybe tweak the direct damage output of spells in PvP as Mercathane suggested.
So:
Please nerf AI (in PvP ONLY!). Please make Bleed better. ;)
AI still does about 130 dmg on a player (with Compbow or Glaive). This is too much. A few hits, poison, failed Healing and the fight is over. This is boring. And too easy.QuoteBladeweave - It uses a random special. I haven't messed with this much. No opinion.
Since it uses the specials randomly it would be good if the other abilities are fixed, changed etc etc.
QuoteDouble shot - was nerfed for a reason
Agreed.
Same should be done with AI.
Great ideas in this thread. One bit of concern?
What exactly are we looking for bleed to do here? As it stands it is an interrupt. It causes bandages to slip on occasion which is really its purpose in pvp. I have never thought of it as a direct damage spell in the vein of AI, double strike, etc.
Bleed Attack:
Mana Cost: 30
Successful use of the special move inflicts 15-31 points of Direct Damage over 10 seconds, with the rate of damage slowing as time passes.
Mortal Strike:
Use of a Mortal Strike will render it impossible to initiate the healing of damage on your target for several seconds. It lasts for 6 seconds in PvP combat or 12 seconds in PvE. Characters under the effects of a Mortal Strike can still cure poisons and staunch bleeding.
Poison:
Being poisoned causes your character to take damage over time, the frequency/power/length of which is determined by the type of poison inflicted.
A poisoned character's life bar will change from blue to green. This over-rides the yellow color that would usually appear if the character is also Mortally Wounded.
I pulled these skills off UOguide, trimmed some of the unimportant stuff to shorten the post. As you can see, bleed, mortal, poison are healing interupts. They are not meant so much as high direct damage. Especially to the point that they are a threat to directly kill you in pvp unless one person is severely unprepared or undergeared/outmatched. I am not arguing from the point that the well timed usage of these skills could net a kill, simply that this is not their primary use by design. This leads into that combination system that Tys alluded too.
I am simply advocating that "abilities" stay in their respective lanes. If you make bleed do all sorts of damage then everyone will be constantly slipping bandages in pvp, bleed will become the new AI.
My war fork says yes but my heart says no.
I am not talking about giving Bleed a tweak of 200% or something.^^
While Mortal also primarily is to interrupt or to make certain actions impossible it also does decent damage.
And Bleed simply does not.
So maybe a tweak of 15 to max. 20/25% would be a good change.
Also i am not saying that Bleed should be as deadly as Mortal can be. But the value of this ability should be raised. Just to make people use different weapons than always the same / the ones that use Mortal or AI.
In theory i agree:
If using Bleed in that exact and correct moment it could (!) cause trouble. But with 400+ HP and tons of regenerations it's close to zero effect. This is why i was suggesting more damage for Bleed.
An alternative could be to let the damage the way it is but change the time of effect. From 10 to 15 secs maybe?
Quote from: zaxarus on April 18, 2014, 06:31:21 AM
I am not talking about giving Bleed a tweak of 200% or something.^^
While Mortal also primarily is to interrupt or to make certain actions impossible it also does decent damage.
And Bleed simply does not.
So maybe a tweak of 15 to max. 20/25% would be a good change.
Also i am not saying that Bleed should be as deadly as Mortal can be. But the value of this ability should be raised. Just to make people use different weapons than always the same / the ones that use Mortal or AI.
In theory i agree:
If using Bleed in that exact and correct moment it could (!) cause trouble. But with 400+ HP and tons of regenerations it's close to zero effect. This is why i was suggesting more damage for Bleed.
An alternative could be to let the damage the way it is but change the time of effect. From 10 to 15 secs maybe?
Or the dmg vs those in vampiric form increase aswell? Making it an anti-vampire ability.
No. Please. No.
I would never waste my time with a Bleed weapon again. Since it already seems that Vampire players don't take additional damage anymore when their opponent is using Undead Slayer.
(a feature that is official!)
I think increasing the duration slightly would actually function more as intended. Slipping for slightly longer might account for some of the extra health. Your only looking for the bleed to give you time to open up into something else after all. I am just wary of of how it will affect the bandage slip of pvp if damage is increased, I am not trying to disparage anyone on the forums idea(s). I hope the spirit of the post does not come across that way.
Players should definitely be taking extra damage from undead slayers while in vamp form etc and the appropriate weaknesses to resist. Risk vs Reward if someone notices your pasty.
On a seperate note i am aware of several spells in several magic schools either dont work, or don't work like they should. Its early AM here in the ATL and i got to get moving. I will test later today and post those as well. I don't want anyone to think im just here shitting on ideas and not doing legwork myself.
ok ill back down from 150%, the numbers add up but you guys are right, its not so easy to attain that level, although you could build a pure mage suit with kasa, spell britches, holy knight and bracers rather than squeezing 150 onto an "all in one" char, that would give 135 without crystal ring or shroud property (but im gonna shut up about this now :) ).. 100% would be fine and would match up with the way we were given double bandage healing with healing increase imbue to cover our double health bars..
raising eval effect would work, though it also serves to keep us all the same rather than choosing a specific build, which is why I touched on mind blast specifically as it favours the pure mage.
I see bleed as a heal stopper rather than a damage dealer and I do good work with my cleaver despite its low damage using bleed but id be happy with a bit more bleed damage.
and yes I think vamp form should be a pvm tool only, you should take more damage from undead slayer so that a decision has to be made rather than just living as a vampire, I mean, it can ever resist parasitic poison! and it grants 15 stam regen and 3 mana regen, so it needs a penalty in pvp.. after all, mortal can be spammed all day but poison is limited to charges and can simply be resisted by vamps.
Hey yall
I have been reading over the thread and all this talk about pvp balance is great.
I'm on the fence for most of the ideas present as all of them sound great but
need to be proven with testing.
Two ideas I have had for a long time are as follows:
Anti Spell Spam System:
- The same spell cast in succession has diminishing returns. Damage done is 1/2 then 1/4 if cast in a row. This is only applicable if the spell was cast successfully on the same target and not resisted.
Anti AI Spam:
- By Equipping a shield the AI effect will be negated in PvP combat when damaged is calculated.
Please feel free to comment as there may be a situation I had not considered myself. (you too Noll as I have no idea if this is even technically possible)
Quote from: Johana on April 18, 2014, 05:56:01 PM
Anti Spell Spam System:
- The same spell cast in succession has diminishing returns. Damage done is 1/2 then 1/4 if cast in a row. This is only applicable if the spell was cast successfully on the same target and not resisted.
Had an idea i before i suggested to king kong.. Magic Equilibrium.. or magic combo wombo..
Casting the same elemental magic in succession would diminish its dmg, as in fireball then a flamestrike as a example, to a minimum of 30-50%dmg, as a "debuff" for 5 seconds.. BUT... do a combo with spells, as in fire, lightning, poison etc, not the same element in a succession of 4 spells? would increase the dmg of each spell, then you need to make sure which spells you cast while your on your peak of elemental combos... might be a bit tricky to script but, i thought it was awesome
I am ok with this.
But "Bleed":
If this will become a "vs vamp only" thing i will not use it anymore.
Also it seems that hitting a vamp with undead slayer doesnt do 25% additional damage anymore. Something that was always like that and that is an official thing.
I like the shield canceling out the AI idea. Would make shields useful once again.
I also think the combo wombo idea is pretty sick. Not sure how it would work but def sounds like a good idea
I think pretty much everything is fine in PVP on Pandora.....you just have to counter what is going on at that moment. Fireball spammers can be interrupted...Ai spammers can be disarmed.....its all about ticks and timing when fighting or playing a mage, so you have to have timing or you dirtnap !!!
Sdi over 100% would be insane on a skilled mage, not really fair vs anything but someone with equal armor/jewels skill etc
Just our Guilds 2 cents on 4/20 :}
Ohh and Happy Easter Pandora !!!!
Im mainly concerned with getting magery and weapon abilities in line with our current health pool. People should be penalized as in the past for letting you freecast on them. As Datrav alluded to we have weapon abilities that deal with AI. We have weapon abilities or spell abilities to counter whatever else someone is throwing at us. If someone is hammerpicking me I am disarming them period.
I do however disagree that pvp is "fine." I have no incentive to combo or cast anything past ebolt. The time to cast a flame strike, explosion, bombard, etc. is not rewarded. I will do far more damage just standing in someones face and AIing them, or standing in someones face AIing them while my buddy fireball spams them etc.
If a damage modifier was added to the 6-8th circles and their equivalents magery would become useful again. Allowing a mage to cast multiple high level spells on you should be a bad idea. The way archery was changed on this server makes that less than ideal as a primary, magic being weak makes that less usable as a primary, so we are all dexxers that might use a bit of something else. Instead of the open skills and stats allowing for even more useful "templates" or play styles we are now very limited because nothing is on par with weapon abilities, in particular AI.
I believe it is entirely possibly to bring the damage dealing abilities in line with our current health pool while still keeping spells and abilities in their respective primary lanes.
Some spells that are fun to use tactically simply don't work. Thunderstorm does not seem to lower SSI. Purge Magic Seems to do nothing. Spell Plague doesn't seem to function correctly. Essence of wind is another. I tested these out with a guildy using an unguilded character. I will post more information on it as I have time. Been busy this holiday weekend.
Mercathane i agree with you 100% :}
Thanks Datrav. KDL is an excellent example of a guild that understands the mechanics of the shard then uses solid teamwork and what i assume is VoIP target calling to make them even more formidable in the field.
That said i believe we can work together to expand the system from what i feel is a very narrow focus. Its natural to lose some of the options with open stats and skills, but that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be more than one viable path to victory.
Its disappointing archery has some random miss modifier added as well. A well prepared archer, not just someone spamming AI from a comp bow should be a force. If i am able to position myself to dismount you with a heavy, poison your mount and then take advantage of it, have i not earned it? I will miss of course against similarly geared opponents of similar skill. This is acceptable. Adjusting the system was unnecessary due to the fact that you can disarm from range. If someone is shooting you with a bow, disarm them.
Pandorians, disarm is a super powerful tool. Are you using it? The primary and secondary abilities of open hands are disarm and paralyzing blow. Why do you think this is?
****
1. Simply test AI at different decreased modifiers. A reasonable damage can be reached quickly in this way. It should still be a direct damage ability that will always do high damage COMPARATIVELY due to the weapons players will use to inflict it.
2. Remove added miss modifier to bows.
3. Adjust high circle spells back to reasonable damage levels.
We can debate the merit of adding additional systems once the current system is updated to be relevant with our current health pool.
Once again i agree 100% :D
Quote from: Mercathane on April 21, 2014, 03:16:57 PM
1. Simply test AI at different decreased modifiers. A reasonable damage can be reached quickly in this way. It should still be a direct damage ability that will always do high damage COMPARATIVELY due to the weapons players will use to inflict it.
2. Remove added miss modifier to bows.
3. Adjust high circle spells back to reasonable damage levels.
1. changed weapon abilities dmg again, give me a nice report when patch goes live
2.cant find any miss modifiers to bows?
3.done, feel free to give me a nice report on this later, test it vs players. And have in mind that mindblast does extra dmg with stat difference, i could temp. help some testing players out with statballs to try out the new dmg on mindblast
when I cast on myself im doing average 24 damage with 3rd circle fireball.. 22 damage with 5th circle mind blast.. 44 damage with 6th circle e bolt.. 42 damage with 6th circle explosion and 62 with 7th circle flamestrike. so that makes mind blast weaker than fireball, glad to see it getting some attention :) especially as its the only cold damage spell and if you bring in an anti spam system where we have to alternate damage types mind blast will be even more usefull.
heres a quick thought on armour ignore, many will hate me for this, but think about it.. so.. ai is the daddy of specials, and fair enough, it does exactly what it says on the tin, it ignores your armour, so its worth an extra 70% damage. the problem isn't neccesarily the move itself but the spammable nature of it with large mana pools and leeches. id say rather than have it take a specific amount of mana it could be that it takes 50% of your mana no matter how much you have with a minimum limit of 30 mana, so if you had 200 mana, the first ai would take 100 and leave you with 100, the second would take 50 and leave you with 50, the third would take 25 and leave you with 25 so youd have to regen 5 mana before you had the 30 needed for your 4th ai, which would take 15 and leave you with 15. in this way it could never be spammed more than 3 times at 200 mana or 5 times at 500 mana, any mana leeches you get could allow extras to be slipped in so you could get a lucky streak but you could never guarantee being able to do it more than 3-5 times in a row without recharging your mana. using a % value means that it can still be used with low mana (30) but would be very costly if repeated from high mana.
that way it could be deadly but expensive, some thought would have to be put into using it at the right time for maximum effect.
just a thought :)
Nollkoll, what level spells and above did you adjust? Just want to know where I should start my testing. Are just the magery spells adjusted, or do we need to test all the spells across the other schools as well.
Thanks.
Quote from: Mercathane on April 22, 2014, 12:57:48 PM
Nollkoll, what level spells and above did you adjust? Just want to know where I should start my testing. Are just the magery spells adjusted, or do we need to test all the spells across the other schools as well.
Thanks.
when the patch goes live, i will note which spells.. But after it goes wide, feel free to test all existing spells if you got time and desire to do that ^^
well about the new modifications i can understand the reducement of ai it was overpower for sure but with new bleed attack i dont agree at all on armor ignore you had the chance to heal or run away but with bleed and with a simple fb spam its even worse then ai . the logic of this improvement makes my stomach sick because this is simply taking some overpower from some specific weapons and giving that overpower to other specific weapons . i definitly do not agree with this !
Quote from: gonfalone on April 24, 2014, 05:35:56 AM
well about the new modifications i can understand the reducement of ai it was overpower for sure but with new bleed attack i dont agree at all on armor ignore you had the chance to heal or run away but with bleed and with a simple fb spam its even worse then ai . the logic of this improvement makes my stomach sick because this is simply taking some overpower from some specific weapons and giving that overpower to other specific weapons . i definitly do not agree with this !
Well if AI was nerfed too hard, it will be brought up again.. And if bleed is overpowered, well take a guess what we will do then ^^. As i said several times, it will take time to balance all the weapon abilities, but hang in there
Quote from: gonfalone on April 24, 2014, 05:35:56 AM
well about the new modifications i can understand the reducement of ai it was overpower for sure but with new bleed attack i dont agree at all on armor ignore you had the chance to heal or run away but with bleed and with a simple fb spam its even worse then ai . the logic of this improvement makes my stomach sick because this is simply taking some overpower from some specific weapons and giving that overpower to other specific weapons . i definitly do not agree with this !
Athough we are in one guild... i must disagree. We talked about it. But well..
Tested Bleed and also Concussion with Grim. AI now does about 80 damage (max.). It does what it has to do, ignoring armor and therefore doing high damage. Bleed and also Concussion do less than AI (and that's alright).
And who said you cannot heal when you get hit by a Bleed Attack? You can apply bandies, you can cast greater heal. All it does is interrupting which makes it a little harder. That's the purpose of Bleed.
So i strongly disagree.
It's not that Bleed is as effective as Mortal now..^^ Cause it's Mortal that destroys your healing, not Bleed...
Also:
A Fireball spam is not able to kill anyone. Casting Fireballs though is a good way to finish someone who is already almost dead or uses a range weapon and keeps distance... just examples.
And of course you can get killed by a successful Bleed Attack and some spells... because it is a combination of those. Maybe you should heal yourself from time to time.
You wanna complain everytime now after you died?
I really disagree... and, sorry, i've tried to explain to you several times...
well i ve experienced it two times and i still disagree now with the new rates while i was using my bandage macro which you sent me :) i couldnt even heal once in pvp arena i had hammer pick and kryss in my hand and i got killed with a clever of course there are some thngs i dont use yet about spells im still learnng but the issue we are discussing is damage rates of weapon abilities and when we do that with a simple clever it takes seconds to get dead i ve experienced this times myself with grim . its not about me crying over dying i ve also killed you with compbow ai its not the issue of me gettng killed or cryn about it the GMs are going to decide what to do anyways . im just telling what i think and what i experienced . i think armor ignore is reduced too much as Noll mentioned on his answer but i can agree with that im not complaining because ai is reduced im complaining because of the damage rate of bleed attack has got now its what i think ....
When you are hit by bleed, first of all first thing you do is greater heal and let bandies take the bleed away, cos Gheal heals you even tho you are hit by bleed, if you don't Gheal yourself it takes 2 bandies to heal you. AI is ''easymode'' for PvP, especially the hammer pick which has mortal and AI, you can kill anyone with it fast, just hit with mortal and rest is AI spam. I find them all VERY balanced even reminds me of the days it used to be that AI did about 40dmg total. And bleed being ''OP'' is a lie, most of us PvPers have at least 450HP and we used to have 187... Bleed used to do with 187 HP about 5-13 dmg, now we do the math there, 187 + 187 = 374 so now count the dmg 13 + 13 = 26 (For 374 HP), and now we do max 22 and that's not even double that old dmg we did and i have about 70HP more than 374 hp now. So we do less than we should compared to HP we have with bleed. And it even lowers down to 15 and then 5-3. So what's unbalanced here?
well. now i get it with the gr8r heal detail i ddnt know that it would heal even if u bleed and i also thought because on this subject it wrote 40 damage but i also now understand that its not 40 as i think . thanks for the explanations especially with grims detailed explanation now i get it thanks for the information .now i agree that its fair. with all the numbers and details .
I myself think the nerf to AI was a bit too mych espically in pvm.. Bigger thing for me is the need to increase all spells. To play a pure caster on our server is usless.. Everything is weapon based which isn't fair to peole whom loved to cast spells from a distance....
Maybe it is possible to change the dmg output in PVM ONLY?
Yea its possible.. But with the nerf on AI and the weapon itself that was used for Armor Ignore (which lost alot of base dmg, bringing em back to osi standards)..
Had a thought about increasing the dmg bonus from anatomy & tactics (for all that got over 100% in the skill)
But how is PvP now adays after the weapon damage got osi standardized? If its fine, i might fix something up for PvM
To be honest, I really havnt noticed a differance, seems like I can still kill monsters just as fast as before, but like anyone I will take the highest damage that the shard allows per weapon, like anyone here I will take what I can get.
Since a rarely do any PVP like some here, I have nothing really to compare it too on that front.
What I would like to know is how people are getting that Hailstorm with there weapons, or maybe it just looks that way, is it a macro or could someone please show me how to add it to my arsenal because it looks like it does a ton of damage.
Oh and it looks cool too :P ....Nigel
There is a difference, Nigel. But maybe you are the only exception? ^^
Nigel your talking about the magic short bow. Lighting arrow is the weapon ability for PvM mainly. Great PvM weapon. Also what blackmyst was using in that big doom coliseum scrap before I killed him.
To your question, Noll:
Imho the weapon abilities & damage/effects are working properly in PvP. It's not overdone, it's not too weak.
Generally speaking I'd say that spell casting should be more prominent as PvP always has been more spell related while weapon abilities acted as supporting measures. Not talking about pure mages, talking about the pandorian way (all skills etc etc.).
(This does not include your equilibrium idea. It could be something for players who want to go as pure mages. But I think everyone could need some tweaks when it comes to casting times for example. High level spells like Flamestrike or Explosion for example take a lot of time. Bad for combos. Of course this is just a personal impression...)
Edit:
Yesterday I spoke to Silent Echo, also had a conversation with Grim about it. As I told you it seems that Fireballs interrupt Healing (which we thought shouldn't happen since it does max. 25 damage). Out of 10 Fireballs you maybe heal one or two times, the rest fails.
UO Guide though says:
QuoteInterruption will occur if the healer is hit for more than 26 damage by a monster or more than 19 damage by another player. The amount of damage healed will be reduced by 35% per interruption
I also sent a message to Vorspire if he can confirm this. Always thought dmg per hit should be higher than that to interrupt healing. With 120 Healing you fail when a FB hits you. Even under 19 damage I think. Is this intended?
Theoretically you could just poison, spam FB, hit with Mortal and be done with it.
(This is of course open for discussion. I am not 100% sure if I like this idea of interruption being so easy.)
As for PvM:
Change is requested... ;)
I do agree about the fireball spam. I mean there are ways to heal thru it but it's a real pain. A few of us practice healing thru it with mini heals and such but it shouldn't interrupt bandys when your 120 healing and have over 200 dex.
Also I would LOVE to see AI do more DMG in PvM only.
Just to push it...^^
And, Noll:
QuoteHad a thought about increasing the dmg bonus from anatomy & tactics (for all that got over 100% in the skill)
This would not work. Because it would affect the PvP damage also.
I still think that a change in the direct dmg output of AI in PvM would be what we need. Simple as that...
i like damage