*Request* Feedback on Weapon Abilities & Magery

[GM NollKoll]

As title said, could someone or a bunch of players, test out each weapon ability, rate em from 1 to 100, where 100 is ALOT of dmg.. Ofc some abilities got buffs/debuffs, and not only do dmg, but also debuffs the opponent or buff  yourself, so please note that aswell.

On Magery i want to know how the new SDI cap works, is the dmg still far too low, and what do you think about the magery situation, what should be changed?

Also wont be on much during this weekend, father coming to visit *had ALOT to clean up*.. but on another note.. hey i can see my actually desktop..

I think im free on Monday, so could perhaps do a PvP event on Sunday, around 5-6PM EST, feel free to vote what type of PvP event that would be, and ofc if you are all able to compete in it..  1vs1, 2 vs 2, 3 vs 3.. FFA.. Ship battle, normal arena, only magery and no equips?.. well the voice is  yours..

Other then that, have a happy easter

edit: will also start the spawning of easter eggs etc tomorrow.. Mostly in random felucca dungeons (and maybe one in luna.. not sure yet)

[Thatperson]

i think sdi should be capped at 150% for pvp.. the old cap was 25% and health bars used to be capped at 187hp, now we have over 400hp which is more than double.. as such the first 100% sdi will double the spell power to match the double health and then the original 25% doubled for a total of 150%. that would make magery similar in pvp to what it used to be (still slightly less tbh) but worth using.. it used to be cool throwing out the off explosion/flamestrike combo before running in with your wep but the cast times dont match the damage now so its not worthwhile to cast (but you know this, thats why your asking
while were at it i think enhance potions should go back to 100%.. it used to be 100% then it got cut down to 50 then our health bars got doubled so i think enhance pots should go back to match.
as for wep abilities ill think further before writing, of course they shouldnt all be equal, some should be more usefull than others and some more situational, not all abilities need to do big damage, it takes skill to use the right ability at the right time, plenty have much more specific uses like heal stoppers etc that dont need lots of damage but can allow you cause more damage in other ways.

[zaxarus]

Like TP said there are some weapon abilities that are not supposed to do high damage but work in different ways - depending on the situation. So i won't waste my time on those. I think they are working fine.
I will just point out those which - besides also being "situation based" - have also the intention to do real damage on a player.

(100 = A LOT OF DAMAGE as in too much!, 50 = average, not too good, not too bad, 1 = totally poor^^)
(this is just an impression... some might see this totally different, i think it also depends on what you personally prefer)
(also: i will also point out the abilities of the magical shortbow, although i don't think it's the weapon of choice in pvp^^)

Armor Ignore* = 100
Concussion = 50
Mortal Strike** = 60
Bleed*** = 40
Crushing Blow = 50
Double Strike = 70
Talon Strike = 20
Lightning Arrow = 35
Psychic Attack = 30
Double Shot = 50
Moving Shot = 25

* Armor Ignore, imho, is still imba in pvp compared to other abilities (damagewise). It makes it just too easy to deal damage and kill someone with only a few hits and not even casting, maybe a curse or some poison.. but that's it.

** Since Mortal's main purpose is not to deal damage (but also to deal damage) i don't see any reason to tweak it in any way.

*** Poor damage, in my opinion. That's a shame for such a nice ability.

Spell Damage Increase:

I think 150% would be too much. I agree with your calculations, ThatPerson, but you have to think about the possibilities with a cap of 150%:
You will be able to kill someone with a FB spam only.
I would suggest not going higher than 100% cap in PvP.

[TheGrimReaper]

I think like 90% SDI cap would make magery more useable in field, as it works now pretty well in close combat but field... Only makes others fingerslip. I think 150% would be waaayy too much, cos if you spam fireball at someone, he has 5% chance to heal himself... Imagine a fireball spam, with dbl the dmg it has now. Which would be around 50dmg per fireball. That's like 9 fireballs to finish a player.  Also had to add that FB used to do about 11-16 dmg, so we can count that that's AT LEAST 16 fireballs to finish someone with the 187hp, plus at that time we were able to use bandages if fireball spammed. Now we can't.

[Thatperson]

i dunno tys i was actually being conservative with 150%, those calculations were based on a player that has double the old 187 health, 400 is more than double and many have much more than that, i myself have 474 hp so even at 150% the relative chunk of my health bar that would be taken from a spell is far less than it used to be with old health bars and you couldnt fb spam someone to death back then, but balance is a process so we shall see

also noll ill say if you want to make mage chars more viable (and its a good idea that i agree with) maybe you should take a look at the spell "mind blast". i remember in old uo those words "por corp wis" were my most feared as a dexer because it does damage based on the difference between the caster and targets int.. because on this shard everyone makes a dexxer with magery sideline people tend to plough as many stats into str and dex as possible and whatevers left goes into int, as a result peoples int levels are broadly similar so mind blast is ineffective.. if that spell still does damage based on the diff between caster and targets int, but scales it up to a higher level it would mean making a mage char who sacrifices str and dex in the persuit of extremely high int a worthwhile endeavour as his mind blast would do scary damage to dexxers .. just a thought..

[Mercathane]

Here is my problem with increasing the SDI cap that far.

SDI is imbuable via runes with a stat value of 15 on 4 pieces of jewelry, your talisman, and your spellbook as far as I know.  The cap should therefore be no higher than 75.  Not everyone wants SDI on their talisman, they might be tempted to switch dress when setting up spell dumps via tali or equip a book into their hands which i consider to be a fair tradeoff for the SDI. 

If you have much more SDI than 90 as is when equipped as described it is due to basically one of three reasons:

-You have donated for stats on your shroud.  You benefit from increased farming with the uncapped SDI during PvM.

-You have a set of mace and shields with stats now not possible to imbue on them, as they were previously considered jewelry and are now imbued under armor characteristics.  Its still fine, your a vet, things change, your PvM farm is increased.

-You have a crystalline ring which has SDI increase on it.  A ring obtained from a mob only spawnable in a PvE area.  Again, for your time, the reward is increased farm.

PvP is built around balance, you cant increase things 100-150% and not expect problems.  Further, I feel it unwise to cap the PvP SDI at such an otherwise unattainable level.

I am not against increasing the SDI cap slightly for pvp.  Let me ask you if we can maybe arrive at the same conclusion: an increase in the effectiveness of magery by a different tactic.

Simply add or adjust the damage modifer for PvP spell damage.  This way nothing has to be tweaked on the PvM side.  Maybe the modifier should be 1.5-2.0, it will need to be tested.  PvP SDI cap can remain the same or be increased slightly.  The end result is more damage gets through per spell to the player, making magery more viable.   This achieves the same goal without the problem of requiring every available slot be used for SDI which reduces character choice.  Everyone following the same template is one of the problems we have now, as TP pointed out. 

Donation rewards should be limited in the affect they can have on PvP interactions. This shard has a nice balance in that MOST of the donation items are luxury or make you better at grinding the PvM train.  You don't want to stray into Pay2Win levels for PvP.  Many people will find that unacceptable.

[Tyrone Biggums]

I was just thinking

Necklace ring bracelet earring and taily at 15 is 75 sdi. Add a scrappers spell book 100 sdi. Just off the top of my head 100 is easily attainable

Edit- now that I think about it my old sdi suit included midnight bracers and spell woven britches which both have sdi also

[Mercathane]

I concede to Biggums 100 should be pvp cap then.  Most people will run around with the items you mentioned imbued with SDI.  It gives those actively using a book a tactical advantage over those wielding a weapon etc. when mana dumping. 

On a side note no one should actively fireball you to death, they should die to your magic arrow and harm.

Biggums, my point is not that u can't get higher SDI, it is that magery should be viable in pvp.  We do not want to tinker and make some 400% SDI fad of the month template.   It simply opens of a can of worms that isnt there with uncapped PvM SDI.  No one wants to be one shot in full tier gear by weapons/magery.

[GM NollKoll]

Cheers for bringing in some light on the whole imbue bit, pay2win is something I detest.. Could perhaps take a look in eval int calculations.. Rewarding 110/120% skill bonus to dmg.. We will see.
I have an idea for some strange armours and weapons for those that read "yee ole dungeon" thread. But thats another story.. Equips that can change the cap itself.. But on equip and perhaps even deequip should hurt the player.. Ah well, let's focus on magery n abilities now..

And Tys, I increased the dmg on bleed, still not enough? Even if it does double dmg in pvm n against vampires?

[Tyrone Biggums]

OK I going to weigh in on some stuff that I would like to see. Everyone always talks  about the same specials. Let's see some of the other ones do something. Let's see people not use the same things over and over. There is a lot to this game that is not being utilized.

The SDI cap, now mind you this is talking with others, shouldn't be over 60-70%. The reason being that at the moment harm does 23-27 dmg and a harm spam would destroy someone at 150 SDI. This also applies to anything 3rd circle and below.

Now as for specials.

I'm not goin to talk about the ones everyone uses as most people have shown what they can do. Tys pointed out most of them and I agree with most of what he said about those specials, aka bleed should be better and AI is to much.

Block - kind of pointless.

Defense Mastery - would be nice if it raised you resists more. Not just phy since no one uses that in PvP.

Nerve Strike - Back in the day this used to be the way to go. I'm talking the shit. Everyone had a Bokuto. It would be nice if it did a decent amount of dmg along with the para. Also based on Bushido. 120 bush = more dmg.

Talon Strike - DMG over time based on ninjitsu. Should be better then bleed at 120 ninja.

Feint - Raise DCI even if hit with lower defense

Dual Wield - I really like this special. It doesn't seem to work on this shard. I have tested it over and over. It should twice as fast as you SSI but decrease the dmg over time for 2 secs. I've used it on other shards and it's nasty if it works correctly.

Armor Pierce - I know bows are kind of pointless in PvP (they barely hit) but when using a Sai I feel this should do more damage then AI for the fact that it is a 2 handed wep (that no one uses) and it requires bushido or ninjitsu also.

Bladeweave - It uses a random special. I haven't messed with this much. No opinion.

Double shot - was nerfed for a reason

Force arrow - honestly haven't tried

force of nature - haven't messed around with but if  anyone has the gutsto PvP with a wild staff I feel they should get the STR buff it says and actually do more DMG with an effect

I'm not going to post about the last 2 garg specials because i have never ran a garg.

All of this is done with some testing and my opinion. I am very willing to listen to constructive criticism but don't flame without reason. I want to see other weps used rather then the normal hammer pick/ bone harvester / oranate axe

If I missed anything or need better testing please explain where.

[zaxarus]

- I think so far we can agree that Armor Ignore is still WAY too high (dmg) in PvP. It doesn't make sense to me why a single ability should be overpowered and do a ton more of damage than any other ability or spell is able to achieve.

- And yes, Noll, Bleed is still sucky. If there wouldn't be the graphic effect and the message of a successful hit... you wouldn't notice it.

- Most of us (except for TP, sorry lol) can agree that 150% sdi cap for PvP would cause problems. Fast spells would be too valuable because they could just kill someone if spammed. I don't think this is the idea behind tweaking magery, is it?
Imho the key to kill someone with magery only is to combine the spells, not to spam one or two of them.
So maybe try MAX. 100% and don't go beyond that. Maybe tweak the direct damage output of spells in PvP as Mercathane suggested.

So:
Please nerf AI (in PvP ONLY!). Please make Bleed better.
AI still does about 130 dmg on a player (with Compbow or Glaive). This is too much. A few hits, poison, failed Healing and the fight is over. This is boring. And too easy.

Bladeweave - It uses a random special. I haven't messed with this much. No opinion.

Since it uses the specials randomly it would be good if the other abilities are fixed, changed etc etc.

Double shot - was nerfed for a reason

Agreed.
Same should be done with AI.

[Mercathane]

Great ideas in this thread.  One bit of concern?

What exactly are we looking for bleed to do here? As it stands it is an interrupt.  It causes bandages to slip on occasion which is really its purpose in pvp.  I have never thought of it as a direct damage spell in the vein of AI, double strike, etc.

Bleed Attack:
Mana Cost: 30
Successful use of the special move inflicts 15-31 points of Direct Damage over 10 seconds, with the rate of damage slowing as time passes.

Mortal Strike:
Use of a Mortal Strike will render it impossible to initiate the healing of damage on your target for several seconds. It lasts for 6 seconds in PvP combat or 12 seconds in PvE. Characters under the effects of a Mortal Strike can still cure poisons and staunch bleeding.

Poison:
Being poisoned causes your character to take damage over time, the frequency/power/length of which is determined by the type of poison inflicted.
A poisoned character's life bar will change from blue to green. This over-rides the yellow color that would usually appear if the character is also Mortally Wounded.

I pulled these skills off UOguide, trimmed some of the unimportant stuff to shorten the post.  As you can see, bleed, mortal, poison are healing interupts.  They are not meant so much as high direct damage.  Especially to the point that they are a threat to directly kill you in pvp unless one person is severely unprepared or undergeared/outmatched.  I am not arguing from the point that the well timed usage of these skills could net a kill, simply that this is not their primary use by design.  This leads into that combination system that Tys alluded too. 

I am simply advocating that "abilities" stay in their respective lanes. If you make bleed do all sorts of damage then everyone will be constantly slipping bandages in pvp, bleed will become the new AI. 

My war fork says yes but my heart says no.

[zaxarus]

I am not talking about giving Bleed a tweak of 200% or something.^^

While Mortal also primarily is to interrupt or to make certain actions impossible it also does decent damage.
And Bleed simply does not.
So maybe a tweak of 15 to max. 20/25% would be a good change.
Also i am not saying that Bleed should be as deadly as Mortal can be. But the value of this ability should be raised. Just to make people use different weapons than always the same / the ones that use Mortal or AI.

In theory i agree:
If using Bleed in that exact and correct moment it could (!) cause trouble. But with 400+ HP and tons of regenerations it's close to zero effect. This is why i was suggesting more damage for Bleed.
An alternative could be to let the damage the way it is but change the time of effect. From 10 to 15 secs maybe?

[GM NollKoll]

I am not talking about giving Bleed a tweak of 200% or something.^^

While Mortal also primarily is to interrupt or to make certain actions impossible it also does decent damage.
And Bleed simply does not.
So maybe a tweak of 15 to max. 20/25% would be a good change.
Also i am not saying that Bleed should be as deadly as Mortal can be. But the value of this ability should be raised. Just to make people use different weapons than always the same / the ones that use Mortal or AI.

In theory i agree:
If using Bleed in that exact and correct moment it could (!) cause trouble. But with 400+ HP and tons of regenerations it's close to zero effect. This is why i was suggesting more damage for Bleed.
An alternative could be to let the damage the way it is but change the time of effect. From 10 to 15 secs maybe?

Or the dmg vs those in vampiric form increase aswell? Making it an anti-vampire ability.

[zaxarus]

No. Please. No.

I would never waste my time with a Bleed weapon again. Since it already seems that Vampire players don't take additional damage anymore when their opponent is using Undead Slayer.
(a feature that is official!)