The demise of the red

[Ladibug]

I'm sure this post is going to be met with some criticism but here goes...

The time of being a "red" on this server has gone. No I'm not red, and I've never had a red character on Pandora. I've been red on OSI years ago and that's pretty much it. They happen to annoy the hell out of me at times, but I can appreciate the balance they bring to the game. It also adds that element of needing to watch my a$$ wherever I go. Not being able to just farm champ spawns to my hearts content because I know pks could show up any moment makes the game balanced and exciting even.

When I first started here, I remember going to Fel Brit and watching the pvpers and reds fight for hrs. I got in the action myself at times even though I was awful at it, but it was fun. Fel Brit pvp is long gone. One of my "fondest" memories on this game was doing DH when I was in WSF. It was me, endless, and someone else..can't remember...and while we were fighting DH on the island, about five Imperium were waiting for us to kill DH. We knew they were going to come and they definitely did. Even though I was super pissed at the time, I think it's one of the best memories I had because of the adrenaline and excitement. Yes you can attack at DH still but the point is there is no one attacking anyone anywhere.

When Descendants was introduced, there was an exodus of sorts from here to there and Pandora never really got back the numbers it once had. Many of our pvpers went there. Now with these changes made to AoE not flagging on reds, there's no point in being red. As a red, you can't pop a champ, you can't go in the pvm room, you can't get flagged on anywhere. Now supposedly there's new changes coming that affect reds even more...who knows what. But guess what? There are no reds! Everyone went blue! And any old pvpers/pks that have come back to this server and see these changes just log right back out.

So while I know that not all people enjoy having to watch their back and just want to play a game without any hassles...that's fine if that's how you want to play. I get it. And I realize it's probably the majority that feel that way which is why it was changed. And yes you can still attack people in Fel doing champ spawns or in Ilsh. So I want to make a suggestion. If you're going to take away flagging on reds, then make their hunting grounds bigger than just Fel and Ilsh. I think that Doom, Abyss, Malas should all be Fel rules. Those places should be high risk since there's so much reward. That would help bring pvp back again to Pandora. We are all powerful enough to defend ourselves, or can be if we tried. So if you get upset that you wont be able to go to Doom alone with your precious donation pet without any risk to you, then you better learn to defend yourself.

Just fyi...I decided to write this post because my friends who pk or who are pvpers are leaving and playing elsewhere where pvp is balanced and that SUCKS. I love love this shard and I want them to play here again. Can we come together and fix this? I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts.

Thanks!

[GM NollKoll]

good reading!
We never intended to kill pvp/red action. But players who thought they were safe in areas, and got instantly killed by a red, just becouse they use a AoE weapon (they might got from their guild when they joined Pandora).

The Abyss map might be fel rules? dont remember if Vors said that or not, otherwise have a few days a week, something strange happends to Malas and doom ofc, that will last for 24h, and will inflict felucca rules. Some rewards might be a tiny bit better, but no longer safe to hunt. (perhaps all peerless locations aswell might be hit with this?)

[Dwarvey]

I've been killed by a red during a holiday event cause I was using a AoE weapon and a red came in. You know what? My fault for being stupid and not paying attention. I really don't see a valid reason to change the red flag rule for AoE attacks.

PL is a part of this game, and there are a lot of areas that are pvp only. I say restore the flag rules to normal, and just allocate Luna, and the new player training area as a unconditional safe area.

For the record I'm not into pvp much in UO, but still understand the fun and lure.

[Voxpire]

The new Abyss map is going to be Felucca rules, there will be only one safe guarded town on the entire map (New Mistas) - You'll only be able to enter the Abyss facet by working your way through a moderate dungeon (located in Felucca) towards the portal - which will be the only way to travel to Abyss, recalling and gating will probably not be available unless you're one of the lucky ones to own a home in the player-run town of Dimitto (known as Lakeshire in Ilshenar)

We have stringent plans to improve the rewards for being red and one of them is to allow reds special access to PvP-based items tailored to being red, while blues can still have access to blue-orientated PvP gear.

There is a lot to come with the introduction of the Abyss facet and we really hope it will kick life back into the PvP scene on Pandora.

[Ladibug]

Yay! I love it!

But please can we allow reds to be hit with AoE again? Really it was one person that I know of taking advantage of young players with this. But I mean really....that's just a lesson learned in my opinion. I learned that lesson myself when i was in the dojo the first time and Lithium Moon came in and stood next to me while i was using my champ axe. Lesson learned!! 

[Voxpire]

No sorry, it's not fair for people to be flagged just because they use a weapon that deals area damage, which is almost every weapon in the game.

It's not a case of reds using it to hang around blues and wait for them to flag them, it's the principal behind the mechanics of being punished for improving your character, which isn't fair IMHO.

Reds can attack freely in Felucca and Abyss regardless of receiving AoE damage.

[rocktuff]

I don't think you people understand exactly the issue. All of fell reds can kill you anywhere all of the new lands red can kill ya anywhere. The 2 places only a pvmer can champ in peace without worry was being exploited by reds letting aoe damage force a pvmer into pvp. if I want to pvm I should not be forced into it. I should have places to go and things to do that are fun and pvp free. there are like 10+ champ shops and dungeons where ya can get killed on spot so what the hell is wrong with 2 pvp free spots? Get over it reds really...

[Horns Nigel]

I'm dissappointed that the new Abyss map will be Fel rules, however SoP is going to make some changes very soon to help our members cope with it.  LOL.   Stay tuned.......Nigel

[zaxarus]

No sorry, it's not fair for people to be flagged just because they use a weapon that deals area damage, which is almost every weapon in the game.

It's not a case of reds using it to hang around blues and wait for them to flag them, it's the principal behind the mechanics of being punished for improving your character, which isn't fair IMHO.

Reds can attack freely in Felucca and Abyss regardless of receiving AoE damage.

Agreed.

I think there is a huge difference between PvP and PK. If you run around, looking for someone using AoE in a non PvP zone, just because he could attack you (by accident!) and you would "defend" yourself (which is, btw, nothing but a joke when a new player - not Young! - or pure PvMer who has no experience in PvP was using the AoE), this is no PvP at all. This is just PKing and it says absolutely nothing about the skills of the "Red" using this exploit.

That whole AoE thing was an exploit used by Reds to get their kills. In the end it's - in worst case, I know that there are people who don't care^^ - fun for one side only.
So why not try to get people who actually got the skills and the will to get into the PvP, even when mainly doing PvM? (That's what I and some other WSFers do, btw: Do PvM, but still do and be able to PvP.)
So the talking about "bringing PvP back" is just a bad translation for "bringing PKing back".
I want to make clear that i have no problem at all with PKing. That is because it's part of the game mechanic and how it works. But i have no problem with it because i can defend myself properly. Try to get me or some others of WSF at a champ - this is gonna be fun.^^ Because it will be PvP and not a one side slaughter.
My problem is that i definately know players who were rly annoyed and also terrorized by that exploit, so i must totally agree with Vorspire and everyone who likes that change.

There are huge areas where PvP is allowed and everyone knows it and goes there at his own risk. As Sheldor stated: Majority of all champ spawns runs under fel rules. And that's totally okay, fair and correct. Because everyone KNOWS the risk.
Of course everyone also knew the risk of AoE's in non PvP areas. It was still an exploit.

A Red is still attackable in Tram - on purpose. So the Red's problem is that a Blue who is equally "strong" or at least not so easy to kill would attack him, maybe also gank him. Well, that was his decision to do so. At his own known risk. No exploit at all.
If you go red, live with it. It's an easy rule, isn't it?
But a Red is not able to use a "false" game mechanic anymore, just to get some easy victims. This is fair. Let them show how good they are. A kill says nothing when it's not earned.

Don't get me wrong:
I love the idea of unsafe zones (as the new lands will be) and it's part of the game. I'd also like the idea of "bringing back PvP". But not on the cost of those who would be nothing but a pawn for the Red's ego.

I was red for exactly 3 days. I changed back. Not because i was afraid to get attacked. This is no problem and it was my risk. The other restrictions (no virtues etc etc) were just too annoying.^^
So if there's a point why being red sucks then its IMHO the fact that other "punishments" (as stated) had a bad effect on the fun i personally have in this game.^^

Ladibug, the thrill if you could get killed at a champ, that's still there. None of the changes made this go away.
How many locations are there where no PvP at all is possible?
1.) Abyssal Infernal (no one can attack anyone there)
2.) Tokuno Champ (Blue can attack Red on purpose)
3.) Bedlam Champ (Blue can attack Red on purpose)
Therefore these spawns have their own difficulties...^^
And there is less reward (PS).

About Doom i have no real opinion. My guess is that no one who is running the Gauntlet is mainly there for PvP purposes. So i don't think that it would make sense to turn this into a PvP area.
If it would be, I'd still go there.

About Malas/Umbra:
Is there any place in this region where PvP action is rly needed?


T.

[Ladibug]

I think high reward areas should all be high risk.

And Abyssal Infernal champ (no pvp) drops 120 ps...when they should only drop up to 110.

Wow well I guess i'm just nostalgic for the way it used to be. Long live Trammel? 

[solo]

I would like to say a few things this is the only server where there are champs spawns that are not fell that drop 120 scrolls so why would anyone spawn in t2a at all if there trammies the reasons spawns were in fell were to keep the economy up so that scroll were hard to get and so there is a risk reward factor which no longer exists on Pandora . Not to mention now if you flag on someone your poison fields and para fields do nto work if your using a bow you will hit maybe 1 in 3 shots the rest will hit but do no damage while the person or people you are attacking will shoot you and kill you they will also not do damage with some of there bow attacks but will hit more then you and as for raiding wsf ill be doing it myself once the aboved are fixed i have  never cared about numbers and have fought by myself outnumbered for years. Im wondering if vorp and the rest of them are just tailoring everything to what wsf wants actually probably because most of us dont play the test server.

[Horns Nigel]

There is no way Vor is catering to anyone on this shard, especially not WSF? 
I think there is a good balance on this shard as there are a lot of players who either don't like PVP or have played for so many years that they are just tired of that aspect of the game.

Once the shard grows again (and it will once the word gets out about the new lands) there will be more reds and PVP out there then we will all want or need, just my opinion.....Nigel

[zaxarus]

Im wondering if vorp and the rest of them are just tailoring everything to what wsf wants actually probably because most of us dont play the test server.

lol what?

1st:
You can join the test server, too. It's no special offer to WSF alone. Join and test, make comments and give ideas...

2nd:
We didn't even talk about this special topic to Vorspire...

3rd:
So pls stop your stupid accusations when you don't have to say anything that is useful.

[Falada]

Wow what did we do now? oO Umm i'm sorry for helping on the testserver? Well no i'm not. Everybody can join it when it's up and help and test and whatever. Sorry but it's not our fault that not many do/did that...
We give ideas like everybody else can do, test new stuff or things that dont work right, tell if it's working now or if it isnt.
Maybe now it's also our fault that there are no reds anymore? I really dont get what's the problem that you cant ACCIDENTLY attack a red anymore. Because that's what always happened... they were flagged accidently! So they were able to attack newbies, youngs!, and people who just want to hunt in TRAM! What's the problem with that? I dont see any. I'm sure there are still enough ppl hunting in fel.

[BizKits]

Sounds like crying because people can't get cheap kills.

Can't PvP. probably will never be good at it. Can survive if attacked, and even if I die I leave a GREAT looking corpse. Great. Seriously....I look great.

I'm new to the WSF guild, but not new to the WSF people. We have been allied for a long time, and over that time they have never changed.

It's rather amusing that anyone would imply that WSF is getting their way, while sounding exactly like whining because you aren't getting your way.

When Vor was working on the test server fixing issues, who was on ther with him? I was...but I was useless. But Fala and Tys were there. Constantly. But it's funny how helping to make this server better gets twisted because people can't have a civilized discussions about differences of opinions, without resorting to slinging mud.

Reds want easy kills? I'm always in T2A. Come kill me, take my head, make funny BizKits comments. Enjoy the one fishsteak you will find on my corpse. Guess what? I won't even rage about it, because it's part of the game.

All the great guilds I have ever played with....played together. When they got attacked...they defended together. When new players joined...they helped to make those players feel at home.

I always felt that's what made shards great.

Glad I figured out in time, its just smack talking and griefing people that is really what holds us back.