Ok since the last patch so many people have been complaining that AI is to overpowered.
My advice find ways around it like everyone else has I just witnessed a dailypvp with 2 people using AI that lasted over 20 mins. If it was so overpowered this wouldn't happen "Thank you Drakania and Johana for the show"
Ways around AI
Curse your opponent= less mana,health,stam + bandage rate
Disarm= IF person doesn't have the weapon duh they cant AI you!!!
Also AI hit chance from what I have seen is not to high to where you cant heal it off once and a great while someone will nail 3 in a row but it isn't common.
Lastly since the last patch the GM's have been saying expect someone with 50k more rating than you to beat you it is not always the case but it should be expected.
So please instead of complaining about things find ways around them
I'm gonna find a way around your Damn disarm Jason. Lol....Nigel
Quote from: Horns Nigel on September 18, 2013, 09:44:26 AM
I'm gonna find a way around your Damn disarm Jason. Lol....Nigel
It is called hotkey you will still get disarmed but you can re equipt fast :)
Great, I will do it....Nigel
Yes, It is a little overpowered, but I have to say only in gank situations. 1v1 or 2v1 you can get around it. We have to be pragmatic here, as long as it's available, people are going to use it. But as Jason stated, there are plenty of options to stop spammers.
Admittedly, I use AI much more than I would like to, but I have to be realistic for a second. I'm a little more than a month old, most of my gear is hand me downs and I only have 2 weapons. Consequently, both of them have AI, mainly so I could adapt quickly to Pandora PvP and use the same weapons for PvM. As soon as I can get a different weapon (executioner's), I'm more than happy to give up AI in PvP for good. I think it's cheap and doesn't demonstrate PvP skill at all. Any moron can push a single button repeatedly or have a looped macro running, it's the easiest thing in the world to do. True skill is shown elsewhere.
get crystals *cough*
as ive pointed out many times before and demonstrated quite frequently, the skill isn't in achieving the kill, it's in surviving, which can be more difficult. I think ai can stand a small nerf or the other abilities a small buff, but in the end ai does exactly what it's supposed to do... ignore your armor. The damage it does is scaled off of health so therefore it does alot of damage, but we have alot of health too. pvp still takes skill, its just how you use the skills you have that matter. There's always going to be one weapon ability that people whine about, it was mortal strike, before that it was para poison, and now its armor ignore. it's an ever changing world and this phase will only last so long. I honestly think that a nerf/buff to individual skills/abilities at this point would be a waste of time and resources as the armor ignore phase will only last so long.
Quote from: Drake11 on September 20, 2013, 07:53:56 AM
as ive pointed out many times before and demonstrated quite frequently, the skill isn't in achieving the kill, it's in surviving, which can be more difficult. I think ai can stand a small nerf or the other abilities a small buff, but in the end ai does exactly what it's supposed to do... ignore your armor. The damage it does is scaled off of health so therefore it does alot of damage, but we have alot of health too. pvp still takes skill, its just how you use the skills you have that matter. There's always going to be one weapon ability that people whine about, it was mortal strike, before that it was para poison, and now its armor ignore. it's an ever changing world and this phase will only last so long. I honestly think that a nerf/buff to individual skills/abilities at this point would be a waste of time and resources as the armor ignore phase will only last so long.
Don't forget about Disarm whining :)
I've seen whine almost everyone who posted here alrdy about this or that ability. It will happen again and again. There is always something.^^
I would also like to point out that myself and another agreed to go without using armor ignore in this mornings daily and i can honestly say, with all the health, bandages, potions, life leech, etc available to us players, the armor ignore the way it is, is 100% necessary. Yes, you can kill someone without it, and someone eventually won, it was around a 15 minute fight or so. However, in the tiny little area that the daily takes place in, you cannot run very far to get away so it's even more possible to kill someone without the armor ignore the way it is. I can tell you with 100% confidence that in a field battle somewhere, wherever it may be, destard, spirit, wherever, that if no one used armor ignore, I don't think I would ever die. So atm I think the AI is necessary the way it is.
Also, (sorry hit post by accident instead of starting new paragraph lol) I think alot of the complaining about is generated by the close confines of some of the battles, i.e. daily, ffa arenas, I think AI may very well be a little overpowered in those small spaces as the escapability is very limited. However in field pvp and some of the larger battles like broken moonglow/ctf, AI is most definitely not overpowered.
All I know is that I finally won in PVP, that's a first lol....Nigel
Well I proved my theory after going red having me going 2 vs 1 on people with AI and also 2 vs 5 with me and Silent Vs WSF.
IF AI was so overpowered and no way to escape how was I able to kill off every member of WSF in that fight and not die once?
It can be easily beat so please no more whining again if it wasn't AI it would be MS or Disarm next thing you know it will be Dismount :)
Your disarm is way too overpowered Jason :P .....Nigel
Quote from: Horns Nigel on September 23, 2013, 08:25:28 AM
Your disarm is way too overpowered Jason :P .....Nigel
Right...How dare it do its job and knock weapons out of peoples hands!!!!
LoL
QuoteIF AI was so overpowered and no way to escape how was I able to kill off every member of WSF in that fight and not die once?
I am very curious (well, not very, more a little^^) how this quote does make any sense at all?
Anyways...
The "problem" with AI is not the extremely high dmg itself. The problem is that PvP is reduced to it now. You, Jason, are the living proof that basically everyone with an AI Weapon (Bow) is able to pvp...^^ (I say that in case you missed reality here.)
Another problem is a thing with the calculation:
The more HP a player has the higher will be the AI Dmg by his opponent. It's hard to see the logic in that.
Besides these facts I'd like to say that personally I won't complain about AI since everyone who wants can use it. It's an ability, nothing more and nothing less. If I die by it, I die by it. It has become a game of luck: Who hits first and gets lucky to hit again? That's it. There is no skill at all. ;)
However:
Things always change. After that one there will be another thing. There are always... things. At least some people - as Jason and some others - feel good. And it's always nice seeing people happy. ^^
I must admit that that battles and daily has become more fun for us pvp flunkies :P.....Nigel
Quote from: zaxarus on September 23, 2013, 11:44:56 AM
Another problem is a thing with the calculation:
The more HP a player has the higher will be the AI Dmg by his opponent. It's hard to see the logic in that.
You don't see the logic in that? For real?
For every 100 HP, it does 35 damage max.
It's a simple percentage... 35% cap instead of just 35 actual cap.
It's logical, because now you can have as much HP as you can get, you're not capped around 200 HP any more.
I do the math, you guys do the crying, that's how it's always been :P
And i always thought that you want high HP to prevent death.^^
Quote from: zaxarus on September 23, 2013, 11:44:56 AM
QuoteIF AI was so overpowered and no way to escape how was I able to kill off every member of WSF in that fight and not die once?
I am very curious (well, not very, more a little^^) how this quote does make any sense at all?
Anyways...
The "problem" with AI is not the extremely high dmg itself. The problem is that PvP is reduced to it now. You, Jason, are the living proof that basically everyone with an AI Weapon (Bow) is able to pvp...^^ (I say that in case you missed reality here.)
This is the same reason that I started killing you guys you think you are so much better than anyone else and criticize people way to much.....Just because I have AI I can pvp as Drake stated it isn't in the kills its escaping the kills so my question is if I can only PvP because of AI how come 5 people all using AI couldn't kill me?? Again I killed everyone of you at least once most of you 2x+ but did not die once that is where the skill is involved is escaping being killed which I did quite well every single time.
So please don't be cocky and say the only reason I can PvP is because of AI take what it is.
Quote from: Electo Jason on September 24, 2013, 08:38:41 AM
Quote from: zaxarus on September 23, 2013, 11:44:56 AM
QuoteIF AI was so overpowered and no way to escape how was I able to kill off every member of WSF in that fight and not die once?
I am very curious (well, not very, more a little^^) how this quote does make any sense at all?
Anyways...
The "problem" with AI is not the extremely high dmg itself. The problem is that PvP is reduced to it now. You, Jason, are the living proof that basically everyone with an AI Weapon (Bow) is able to pvp...^^ (I say that in case you missed reality here.)
This is the same reason that I started killing you guys you think you are so much better than anyone else and criticize people way to much.....Just because I have AI I can pvp as Drake stated it isn't in the kills its escaping the kills so my question is if I can only PvP because of AI how come 5 people all using AI couldn't kill me?? Again I killed everyone of you at least once most of you 2x+ but did not die once that is where the skill is involved is escaping being killed which I did quite well every single time.
So please don't be cocky and say the only reason I can PvP is because of AI take what it is.
So much talking, so few insights.
We were talking about you and made a very simple decision: Just don't say anything more. So I'll let you keep your opinions and we all are happy. :)
QuoteThis is the same reason that I started killing you guys you think you are so much better than anyone else and criticize people way to much
If you have something to say then do it in a PM. We all know you like to talk a lot, based on no or false informations, so maybe we should do this in another way. People may get bored.
Although i am very sure from where these "insights" are coming. Maybe that's why i call them false or not existing.^^
Back to topic? Or are we done? Hope so...
Oh sorry I will go back to what Dragonik says in order to get the complaining over with:
"You are Always Right Everyone Else is Always Wrong"
And I you want to keep it to PMs you might want to tell your boy Sheldor not to talk crap in world chat again about how I cant beat any of you guys without Silent.
Beat Him and Keebler in Bedlam 2 on 1 no problem so if you want me to keep it to PMs tell your followers to do the same shame I have to respond to comments like that. And shame I have to defend against remarks like yours that anyone can be a PvPer with AI if that's true you would've done a lot better against me than you did.
Mhh. Well, I don't claim to be always right. I was just responding to some interesting thoughts...
And about that thing with Dragonik: Seems in this point i was just right... i am sorry for this tho.^^
QuoteAnd I you want to keep it to PMs you might want to tell your boy Sheldor not to talk crap in world chat again about how I cant beat any of you guys without Silent.
I am very sure (and we all know) that you seem to be an expert in letting the "world" (in world chat) know when you are not satisfied with something. It happened the last weeks - a lot. You will remember, I do, everyone does. So maybe you're in the wrong position to demand anything?
Anyway... it is proven that these discussions have no end until one does stop. So i will be this person. Feel free to continue, but without me then.
Jason is a very fair and good player on this shard, I have found him to be very knowledgeable and extremely trustworthy, hes worked his way up the chain here doing things the right way.
I have sat back and listen to people constantly criticize and even accuse him of exploits and hacks... Well no more, we are all very tired of it, just play the game the way its set up and move on JEEZ....Nigel
Quote from: Horns Nigel on September 24, 2013, 01:39:07 PM
Jason is a very fair and good player on this shard, I have found him to be very knowledgeable and extremely trustworthy, hes worked his way up the chain here doing things the right way.
I have sat back and listen to people constantly criticize and even accuse him of exploits and hacks... Well no more, we are all very tired of it, just play the game the way its set up and move on JEEZ....Nigel
Thx for that Nigel people will think what they want and let them.
Considering last week I just gave one of them access to my chests in castle told him to take whatever arties he needed for his museum and didn't charge him anything at all for it kind of shows :)
Also getting really aggravated at the fact that every time you say anything to Tys that he doesn't like he takes away a karma point from you this is what the third time he has done it to me??
uhm... what?
Quote from: zaxarus on September 24, 2013, 03:51:09 PM
uhm... what?
IDK every time me and you get into an argument on here I seem to lose all of my karma.
So apparently this means don't post event idea's that people like.
Don't post bugs that need to be fixed.
Don't offer up services.
First, i didn't do that...
Second, i don't worry about that karma thing. It is a number. Doesn't change anything at all, does it?
I've rewarded good ideas in the past, but i did not take karma away from you - since this might be the first real argument we have? (Excuse me if i don't remember much of the past?)
LOL I must be hated I have 0 karma lol.....Nigel
I take that back I now have -1 karma LOL....Nigel How is that even possible??? ::) Nigel
Oh wait now -1. Well if it isn't him I wonder who has been doing it. Getting very annoying.
Wasn't me. I'd have no problem admitting that.^^
Well than sorry for jumping to conclusions it happened the last time when there was the CTF issue to I went from 1 karma that time to -1. Had 1 now from my bounty hunter idea and was taken away during this discussion.
BTW whoever added Sephiroth to the available Avatars is awesome :)
"Best Video Game Villian of all time"
This is just my thoughts in general and not directed at anyone.
I've played tons of games and 90% of the drama is from pvp.. now if i am in a pvp area then i have no problem with someone trying to kill me, if i talk smack then ress kill me over and over. but when you talk smack that your the best when you killed a noob or a pvmer then you should be riding the short bus.
I have seen some true hard core pvpers over the years and watching two of them fight it out is a great thing to watch or getting PKed and the guy offers a res says a lot about his character and gains my respect and who knows for this old pvmer and item trader may get an item that the pvper is looking for cheaper then the norm vs the little dirt bag pvper that wants an item from me and i might just jack the price up on them or just ignore them.
I could of unloaded on a few of our pvpers when i came upon them at a spawn and their half dead and took their champ or whatever but i don't and a few of them have come upon me and either helped or left me alone.
This of course does not happen everyday but the server needs both pvp and pvm/crafter/traders to make the economy strong. when this is in check i make lots of gold :P
(Now this is Karma :)
There will always be smack talking this is UO, there will always be people riding the short and narrow path with how they play the game but if you don't like getting killed by other players stay out of those areas. Now if you want to see more people in pvp areas put something in those areas that makes us pvm/item hoarders to want to be in those areas :)
(Risk Vs Reward:)
Cyrus
Agreed Cyrus, well stated, I am like you mostly PVM, I just never cared for PVP, what you find on this shard unlike many others is that most of the PVPers are really good players who will not even loot sometimes, heck some will even Rez ya afterwards.
Maybe im too close to it as I know most of the players on the shard, we are a pretty tight knit community, its not anything like it was when I started here years ago, back then there was so much trash talking I can remember people begging them to take it to Pms lol...you just dont see too much of that anymore here....Nigel
Ill admit I do use world chat more often than I should which I will try to stop.
As for rezzing I do rez players that I feel deserve it the ones who talk smack or accuse me of looting when I haven't or follow and camp res spots I will let loose on which should be expected.
As was seen yesterday at Lich spawn I only res killed tys and Sheldor...why you ask?
Because Sheldor doesn't stop running his mouth and also looted me and Tys accused me of looting people when I have not until I was looted as well as following my members to healers so they cant rez.
As for Tazi, Falada, Keebler I did not res kill any of them an in fact told those with me not to either.
As for Cyrus and Jinxy if I see them I will leave them be unless otherwise attacked they have stayed out of it and I have had some good conversations with them :).
I don't claim to be one of the best pvpers here in fact look at the thread about top pvpers nowhere did I mentioned myself as one of the best. I am just trying to have fun now that im done leveling my Tiers.
Also trying to bring back PvP and factions.
I think i've never before stated in the forums who i killed and why. It's... uhm ... boring? Of course i could and yet i don't...
Ok back to topic, since there is nothing else to say. I will try to be constructive here, ok Jason?
1.) Making Glaives and Compbows even (damagewise) was a great decision and it still is. The difference was too high and now everyone can see how high it has been...
2.) AI is now THE major ability in PvP when it comes to damage. If you want to hit someone, fast and heavy, you have to use it. Everybody does and that's understandable, since there is no alternative with an equal damage output.
Of course there are several other abilities. Not so effective at the moment, but still existing. Paralyze, Mortal and some others, maybe Bleed. But none of those will kill someone or even closely help to kill somebody. Mortal me, i just don't care. Eat my apple and move on.
AI someone, hit him twice, maybe with backup, he will be done.
Spellcasting? Nada. Didn't see ONE spell by you, Jason. And that's just an example. Cause i have no problem admitting that i also don't cast any huge spell or even a combo anymore. Maybe Poison, maybe sometimes Flamestrike/Explosion. That's it.
Because:
3) There is NO USE for spellcasting anymore. The damage is just too low. Everyone who is on Tier 5 has at least 330+ hitpoints. And more to come. Now check spell damage in PvP. As we know it is capped. You heal it in 2 secs and move on.
I don't say you have to be able to defeat someone by casting only. But spells have to play a more prominent role. At least to compensate the boredom PvP now has become. AI, boom, dead. That's basically it. And as we have seen: Also in the field. Every death on our side was by AI. Every death on your side was by AI. No spell, no combo, no other ability helped killing you or me. Maybe some Moving Shots while we were running. That's all.
And that's sad...
And before Konstantine or Vorspire tell me to make a suggestion - I alrdy did in the Suggestion Board: Increase SDI cap for PvP!
@Jason:
I've tried to be constructive here. Maybe you move this around in your heart and come to the conclusion that this is the only way to keep this thread clean from accusations and childish garbage.
You say Sheldor "doesn't stop running his mouth". When i told your GM the same about you he said to me that's on you and not his concern. The same counts for me. It is his right to complain as it is yours too.
Ty
I don't ever remember having a connversation with you about Jason, but I do suffer from CRS, so maybe it happened. I don't think that would have been my responce, usually I would go out of my way to find common ground to end any potential conflicts. Again, not sure if it was me, maybe it was a diff guild leader?......Nigel
Yes, not you.^^
Ok. Ty Rye....Nigel
Ok Tys you really need to remove the silver spoon from your mouth cause all I was doing was answering Cyrus's post so your 2 paragraph explanation "Which btw got tired of reading halfway through and stopped because its all the same stuff you always say" had no bearing at all on what my post said.
Also as for spells I cursed everyone of you before attacking as well as did poison.
On top of that I also cast a lot of spells on myself so you are wrong there.
As for accusations again I was answering Cyrus's post about his thoughts on PvP not asking you to get all pissy and start running your mouth on something that was all done already after your last post yesterday was done talking to you cause in your eyes as proven before you are always right everyone else is wrong.
So seriously everytime I answer someone elses post it doesn't give you the green flag to jump in and attack me I swear you stalk to forums to do so if I say anything right away you are there to try and correct me get over yourself.
Seriously? Omg... lol
You got me, i give up.^^
QuoteSo seriously everytime I answer someone elses post it doesn't give you the green flag to jump in and attack me
A little paranoid maybe?^^
I have to get back to this! PvP never was about 3hit and dead in here Pandora now it is... The PvP now is based on AI spam with psn spam and HP, healing increase Which i find really sad... All the spell combos i used to kill many many many players are WORTHLESS, i proved it, 118dmg by 1 AI... Seriously? Where's all the fun spell casting gone and the moment the other half fails the casting and you get the chance to fill him up with combos. The time people said Para psn is OP it seriously wasn't... They just didn't realize 1 arch cure and it's gone... I know i'm posting here half a year later but i just had to and i also have proved that even with 140k rating doing PvP against people with over 100k more than i have is possible, untill they raise their AI weapon and all the chances are gone.... Every weapon used to be on balance, i had over 20 different weapons they all were as good as the others and none was better, just had a favorite and the one i was used to use. Think this proves something has to be done with the AI? I remember when hammer pick wasn't OP, look at it now... Or a comp bow seriously the lamest PvP weapon and now THE BEST?! What really happened? And i have to say this outloud, becoming a ''pro'' PvPer atm by using AI to actually win or disarm which no one ever used when weapons were balanced, makes me laugh HARD. Yet haven't used it once with 0% healing increase and not even tier 2... And doing this good might tell something. I stick to old days, Cleaver, Scepter, War mace! (Tho War Mace Needs To Be Fixed, Bleed Doesn't Work)
Grim, feel free to send me a pm regarding -ALL- weapon abilities, and how you rate em in pvp. See if i can balance the others up, or make em funnier to use
I am not sure if it's a wise or good idea to mess with the other weapon abilities. We had such a thing a while ago with spell damage and casting times. And i think the vets would agree that this also ruined some aspects of PvP.
So i wouldn't mess with something that works, theoretically. Speaking of the other abilities.
Theoretically, because atm the AI (especially Compbow and Soul Glaive) ruins everything in PvP. Just hit someone 1 to 3 times with AI and he will be dead. That's it. This is what it became.
The other abilities are awesome (some more, some less, that's normal). But the AI being overpowered as it is makes it hard and/or useless to try other abilities, especially in field. Of course there are ways. But having one ability with such an enormous damage and the others with their "normal" effects makes it silly. I cannot imagine that it can be intended for newbies to kill experienced PvPers with a few hits.^^
The best way (instead of messing with everything else now) would be to nerf the AI damage output IN PVP ONLY for every kind of weapon.
And please raise SDI cap (currently 50 in PvP) to maybe 75% and see what it does. Because atm spell combos are obsolete.
Ty
YES!!! This is what should be done, all the abilities work like they always worked but, AI makes them all useless, PvP based on 1 ability is wrong. And who remembers the very old school PvP that easily took 3hours and not 4seconds... I remember being able to do 7vs1 in field here EVEN if they all used AI/ Mortal, now there's no chance on earth you can do that. The dmg AI used to do was like 35dmg, now over 100... Which makes no sense as average HP is about 300 And used to be like 180... That's not even half more and the dmg went over double on this ability... Cap it on like 50dmg + the hit effects you have in your weapon can then give you a chance of making 80dmg, which wouldn't be that insane and it would be the 50% chance of even getting there. Then i think it would be balanced with the others like it used to be, i don't see any needs for the changes on other abilities as they work like they should.