PVP'ing concerns.

[enrod]

I'm aware that a lot of changes have been made recently, and I'm curious about the reasoning behind these changes. As an emissary of imperium and a frequent PVP'er with warring guilds such as H2O, many of their flames and complaints have become changes in recent updates. Spells such as fireball, poison, and harm, which have been invalueable in finishing as well as interrupting have become useless. This now gives a boost to Fukiya dart users, as well as BUFFING these darts with glassblowing. This brings in to question one very verbal pvp'er who our guild knows quite well.

The changes to potions now render survivability on the field to minimal when you are being chased by more than one person. I do not feel they were unbalanced at all among the fully suited pvp'ers. Every one of us has a potion bag and has been using it. It also gives us no advantage over users who don't have one, because if you don't have one its unlikely you're suited enough to fight back in the first place.

The new changes to the drop rates and the end all goal of a suit may have increased game play value of some PvM'ers, but will ruin future interests in PVP for most. In my opinion, Ultima Online is STILL played over a decade later because of its unrivaled PVP'ing. These updates further the gap, as well as remove interests in PVPing for many new players. If the objective here is to limit PVP on pandora, you have succeeded in doing so.

I lost my interest in PVM'ing within two-three months. When someone facilitated me into a PVP'ing suit, I became interested in Pandora again and have been here ever since. Grinding, to me, is not fun. PVP'ing is.

[lucescrewz]

I agree Enrod. Pvp wasnt broken in the first place. the nerf on potion drinking to instantly cure a poison could be understandable but then nerfing the casting times on spells that dont do alot of damage anyway or someone will resist half the time its casted on them you cant even poison someone at all now.  why is a harm of all spells the same cast time as a lightning? i do think that the people who been flaming us have the biggest voice here also now. its a shame they cant win anymore like they used to... times change. we adapted to their styles in order to win they should have to do the same to us now and not complain to change the game to help them win.

[Wun Hung Lo]

I understand "tweeks" to gameplay are essential to keep the playing field somewhat level, but such a drastic "squashing" of low level spells confuses me.  I just joined the daily pvp to test out the new casting system and was, im sorry to say, very discouraged. With no disrespect inteneded to my opponent, I normally would have had no trouble deafeating him, but with the near impossibility of casting a large spell such as flame strike while he spammed lower level spells i could not damage him that way.  I then tried to wittle him down with smaller spells, alas they do pitiful damage and his bandaid would return him to full health before i could get him poisoned.This fight lasted nearly 5 minutes as i switched threw all my weapons and finialy came to the poisoned cleaver which eventually did the trick. All i had to do was para poison twice and cast a lightning or 2, that was not fun in my opinion.  No creativity was involved in my spell casting, no good combos just a silly poison.I like the idea of larger spells getting a buff, but they take so long to cast that even a novice pvper can thrwart your best combo with a few harms and let the grueling fight to take down a smurf begin. Im not saying i know whats best for the server, but i do know Stonex told me 3 days ago, and i quote "wait til you see kon's patch notes, you're screwed. You will probably quit! LOL". As if he had some inside secret, and knew what as coming. Does that mean some people get to make suggestions and others get to "see what happens"? I love ultima online and its pvp system is still unrivaled, and i also enjoy playing on pandora, its a great server which is why i donated. But that encounter mixed with the latest changes leaves a very sour taste in my mouth. Let me know if i can help in any way or answer any questions. Thx much.   Wun Hung Lo

[Dr Seuss]

So I have just read the posts on the updates as well as your 2 posts. Let me start by saying this...I am not quite as active I as I have been, but I still remain pretty active fighting you guys as well as anyone else. I am not sure where you guys are getting the information that H2O has voted for any of these changes at all. I have never heard anyone talk in game about them or in vent. Now maybe someone has when I havn't been on so Im not 100% sure about that, but maybe we shouldn't jump to conclusions before just stating that our guild is for these changes or mentioned them. I personally havn't been on to test the new changes but to me personally I do not agree with them either. That's all I will say about the changes for now until I actually try them with the exception of the pot changes. I think that is silly to change the pot timers they have been messed with enough and 20 sec pretty much makes pots useless.

As to Luce...let's get one thing straight.  I can pretty well speak for my guild that we do not run and complain to Kon or anyone because we have lost in the field fights lately. Nothing needed changed to help us win nor would we want that! The reason we have lost lately is due to inactive players and being outnumbered which is neither here nor there we still fight it is fun and frustrating at the same time but that is part of pvping. You win some you lose some. With that being said if there are changes that are made dont automatically assume that our guild pushed for those changes to help make us win that is just absurd. These changes would ultimately hurt our guild worse than yours at the moment because we are fighting with less numbers.  So please don't just start bashing our guild over changes that we had nothing to do with. I am not happy about them either but I want to try them first.  

[Dr Seuss]

Wow after reading your post wun that sounds like it sucks lol. I have never heard stonexx talk about a new patch now Im curious how he knew what was up as well.  Guess I miss too much when I am not on. I hope none of our guild had anything to do with these changes because it doesn't sound like pvp will be much fun

[enrod]

but i do know Stonex told me 3 days ago, and i quote "wait til you see kon's patch notes, you're screwed. You will probably quit! LOL". As if he had some inside secret, and knew what as coming. Does that mean some people get to make suggestions and others get to "see what happens"?

Our attempt is not to call out H20 directly for all of these updates. But Stonex did say that to Wun the other day before this update about changes coming. This is why it brings up our questioning deeper into other updates as well. When your members flame some of ours for using fireball and poison spams, and shortly after an update occurs to patch that, you would wonder what is going on as well.

Our idea is not to start a war on the forums with H20 members, but to dig deeper into why these changes are going into effect. It seems too coincidental that concerns raised after pvp battles by Order have become changes in our [MOTD's.

[Dr Seuss]

Ya man that is understandable I would be curious too to be quite honest.  I don't want forum wars either our guild has been through this before, but ya I don't know what's going on either. I have personally never had a problem with fireball spams or poison spams neither seem to work real well other than the magical people who can land ever poison they cast lol. Well let me put it this way I can assure you had that I had ZERO input on this or anything to do with it because I am sure when I get off work to try it after bit I will be right on board with you guys on this subject.

[Lightning]

I joined this shard 4 month ago. At first i liked the skill gain, i was able to skill everything within weeks witch was a great plus because skilling is boring to me. Then I've seen the PvP in the DailyPvP and i was SO DAMN EXITED... The good players casted so fast, did nice combos and it wasn't easy to kill some of those. That was the Reason that i started PvM. To get better Equipment to be ready for PvP.

It took me about 2 Month to get good Equipment, farming every day for hours.
Now its really hard to get the same stuff i guess i would need 4 month now... (4 Month boring stuff to get ready for the fun stuff!? Not sure if i would do it again).
Anyway I'm nearly fully equipped now, to me it depends more on my ping and my player skill then on the equipment to win a PvP so i don't care that much about the PvM Changes, but i guess everyone who is just farming stuff to get ready for PvP will care a lot about that Changes.

The last Update changed the PvP a lot. Potions will become very expansive, u cant use them that much now. Lowering Poison spell will couse that u need Parasitic Poison like hell. Lumberjacking got nerved, was already hard to get Parasitic Plants... now the price will go even higher. At the moment i pay about 500gp for one use of parasitic poison but the prises went up if i buy the plants now i need to pay 1500gp for one  use and beaouse i cant kill someone with the normal poison spell, mortal or bleed without the parasitic i need to use up to 20 charges in one fight (30k gold only for the parasitics IF i get that much now).

I cant use the "buffed" spells in 1 on 1 fights because i get interrupted by magic arrow with zero dmg or harm with 1 dmg. A fight even versus new players takes much more time and i get bored if i have to look at the fights in daily while i am waiting for my own fight.

I need to PvM now to buy resources for PvP again, i cant solo champs that good and even in groups i get instant killed by monsters like Semidar or Abyssal. I don't like to die, pay insurance gold, walk around as ghost to get the same stuff i got before without all that stuff.

I don't want to use a Cleaver in PvP but now i have to, or at least a good amount of darts.

Its very frustrating to me, to watch at the last changes because i don't think that it is more fun but less, to PvP or PvM now.

I like many Changes but i dislike more.
To me Pandora is still the Best UO Shard i know, but it was better 3 Updates Ago.

[Lithium66]

I do understand everyones concerns and everyone has a right to their own opinion and I also do not want guild wars on the forumns. The Big picture here is Kon is trying to rebuild the economy and make things valuable again and to get the economy booming and in order to save an economy extreme changes usually need to be made and I for one got bored pvming to get items that should be worth 10-30 million and watch them get sold for 1-2 million. Power scrolls were junk etc etc etc.

And if any of you think I'm happy with these changes pvp wise  outta know me better but I do look at what the last three patches are about and thats longevity for the server and to rebuild the economy,  With no economy the shard will flop or get very stale.

Everyone always acts as if something is forever and gets mad whenbottom line is Kon is doing things he sees necessary to make the shard better in the long haul.

Each and everyone of us is affected by these changes and its absurd to think when you look at the changes that they were made to make one guild better than the other thats rediculous!

We all need to probably rethink our skills ,stategies etc and when we all get to test things out and see whats good ,bad and ugly I think what we should all do is get the guild leaders from all the guilds together and brainstorm everything and then make suggestions to Kon about legitimate concerns and trust me if all the leaders took their concerns as a whole with everyone in agreement he would definantly have a debate with us about the pro's and kon's and some kind of resolve would come of it  for all of us pvpers and pvmers etc.

So lets instead of getting mad and throwing in the towel etc etc etc all work together compare notes and make educated decisions  based on testing whats here now to further improve in the near future whats changes may need to take place to the updates etc.

Trust me this is not an H20 patch this is a shard patch and we all suffer or gain from patches so that means we all need to test everything then get together like I said and brainstorm and go from there.

         Sincerely
                        Lithium

[Lightning]

Economy is one Part, PvP another.

i loved the pvp espacially the daily pvp. now its rly boring.

Ewua needed 11min for Tyrone, normally he needs less then 1min.
i beat Ewua for the second time in 4 month when he is at his good computer with the good ping, just couse i spammed Darts.
I know many people dont like Ewua, but u cant say that he's a bad pvp'er imo he's a very good or one of the best pvp'er and if he cant beat a random player fast, there must be something wrong.
The PvP was fine before, now one daily takes about 1 hour and everyone is watching boring fights.
Everyone has to much hit points for slow casts. You cant interrupt PLUS dmg u cant poison u cant deal high dmg with combos.
Try it on your own Lithium, pls. Try it without parasitic and i would bet a lot that u fight hard, even versus non pro pvp'er.

[enrod]

I can understand economy changes to a certain degree, but even there I don't see the end resolve. If things are attainable quicker, there is less memory needed to store items/mats because you utilize them quicker. The quicker things move along in PvM, the quicker these players can join us out in the field (The funnest aspect of the game). Respawn timers are low, mats are SCARCE, you can't chop a tree more than once, and you can't dig a mine more than once. The people loving this are people who stockpile mats, which I do not. I use mats for imbuing, as they are intended.

What does the slower casting times resolve with small level spells when the current pvp'ing groups have pots/bandys/scripts? No longer can you interrupt those big dumps with small level spells. Now everyone has to coordinate big dump spells (explo/fs), you mean like the H20 fielding strategy? Now pots take 20 seconds to be used again, which is the only thing that can save you from this particular strategy? There's new glassblowing fukiya darts, an upgrade to the fukiya darts frequently used by you on field lithium?

I would happily put minds together, but truly feel as though opposing minds were not put together on this update, especially for PvP.

[Lithium66]

I have not tested anything yet myself as i plan on getting on soon just finishing up stuff around the house then a beer run then ill be on. As far as darts go I have never used a dart in my 12-13 year uo career. As far as big spells go all pvp guilds load up call target drop on em and hope he drops. When i get to test everything out im sure ill have an opinion also and probably the same as all the other pvpers. My thing is even though we get changes we hate dont throw in the towel instead be a part of the solution and get it resolved so when i get on ill test things out then maybe we all pop in the general vent channel and discuss it and maybe get some kinda resolve because it effects us all.

By the way lightining i dont think ewua sucks! do I think he is great ? nope but he is good im not even great im just decent but I have seen many great pvpers over the years and the funny thing is a mediocre guy can beat one great guy and a great guy cant beat the other great guy etc etc its all about templates and styles its the guy that over comes his weakness against a superior player to beat him that makes him great thats all.

I'm not here to say yay or nay on the changes as i have not tested anything yet and i understand what you are all saying but i get pissed when people get a quitters attitude  and want to throw in the towel when something got changed period as we all know nothing is ever set in stone and all things are possible with this game so lets keep the name calling out of it and just express the concerns.

I have been gone since christmas due to snowmobile season and just came back in the last week so there was already two patches put into place and this one just today so if you think I had anything to do with it think again.

[King Kong]

I dont mean to be harsh -- But if you don't like stuff, well... Sorry?

We are looking toward the future and long term of Pandora --

Agaain, I am just being forward, that's what Kings do. I still love you guys.  :lol:

If you leave no hard feelings, but if you don't like something, give it time, try it out for awhile.

Remember a lot of my changes take time to get used too, but on the face their no good.

[Lightning]

I understand your position. I never said that i want to quit but i think its the job of the active players to show if there is a Problem if there is less fun.
I already tested it for many fights today. I Focus on the DailyPvP and i can truly say that it is no fun. I was in DailyPvP nearly all day when i am at home. Today i only joined 3 DailyPvP's, 2 of those took over 1h with less then 10 Players, the last 5 Dailys doesnt even start couse noone joined, doesnt happen that much at my playtime, there must be a reason.
I don't want to throw the towel like u said i just want to have fun at pvp with much options much strategies and the possibility to have your own fight stile. atm the only effective strategie is parasitic poison and i dont want to be a poisoner nor everyone to be one. Also i cant afford it, the price will raise up from 1-2k for 1 fight to 10-30k just for the darts IF some1 starts to use the nerfed lumber (dont guess some1 wants to).

[Dr Seuss]

Wow I somehow expected that comment......no offense Kon but that is probably not something you should just toss out there man. We all are dedicated players who have been here for quite a while and donate to help your server.  We are the people who have actively pvp'ed here for a year or more.  People are going to be upset and it is going to be posted on the forums as it should be.  I have tried the new casting just a bit and I agree with majority of the posts so far. As I haven't tested it extensively I am sure there are positive's and negative's as to any updates. So far I can say though I do not like the new casting as it is.....probably needs adjusted or some thought put into it and tested. Maybe it has but I dunno.  But to be nice and just toss out for us to find a different server if "we dont like it"  is probably not the best tactic just my opinion. Maybe the 15-20 people who actually pvp and yourself have a constructive talk about it....maybe we need to play it and see what happens then go from there I dunno.  I am sure it will get all worked out. If not the pvp playerbase may be a little less but who knows. Not trying to be offensive or mean just stating my thoughts.