1st I sound like a broken record and when one of our gms have time plz look into this. For over a year I have been searching the shard forums, vendors in game, shouting in trade. I also run 3-5 champs a day and myself and all of my guild wsf can verify that some powerscrolls just do not drop. lumber jack, mining, cartography, alchemy, carpentry. are just a few I can think of that never drop. My next question is I have been trying to raise lumberjacking from 110 to 115 and ya can only hit a tree 1 time and have to move on to next tree I have cut on over 100 trees now with not even .1 gain. Lumberjack used to raise just like swords simply using an ax during battle so can we get a invincible tree at the training elementals to cut to raise the lumberjack skill...
you are right that the scrolls are extremely rare, but I must say I got an alchemy 110 the other day and a mining, bowcraft and tinkering 105's too in recent weeks. I have 120 lumber and bought my scrolls off vendors so I must have been super lucky :) I ran into the same problem raising it though and bought a skill ball coz im lazy.
invincible training tree is a nifty idea though :D
I will add that iv done hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of champs and only ever had trade scrolls drop on 3 occasions (one had 2 trade scrolls at the same time)
I recently got a 115 fletching maybe they increased drop rates on it. Also i got an IDOC with a lot of lumberjacks and other ones on there. Still have not gotten 120 imbue or any alchemy PS's yet which makes me want to cry at times :(.
For the lumberjacking best thing to do would be to setup a harvest macro so you dont have the issues. either mark teh option to drop logs at feet or setup and record like this.
Start recording
get in a cluster chop the trees
Teleport to new cluster or recall
Do this a few times than recall home and setup organizer for logs into a chest.
Than recall out to another cluster.
This make take 1-2 hours to get it set good enough to be able to constantly run with not having to babysit but should get teh job done for you.
I don't believe that every PS has the same chance to drop. If that would be I should have tons of harvesting PS, including rare things like Imbuing. Well, I don't.^^
And while I'm okay with slower drop rates on some skills (makes it worth doing champs, also keeps you motivated) I cannot say that the actual drop rates for those scrolls are "fair" (can't find a better word for it, sry^^). At least Lumberjacking, Blacksmithy and other crafting scrolls should drop slightly more often. For whatever reasons BS 110 seems to be pretty rare, so if anyone might need one, i think i can sell it cheaper than some people did. Also Jags has fair prices for them.
But there are scrolls that just don't drop, that's true. And for my more than 2 yrs on Pandora I can say i rly did tons of champs. ;)
agreed and what do ya think of a traing tree to chop on...
I got 110 mining a couple of days ago. After hundreds of champs though I can say that it was my first craft skill drop off a champ though.
Quote from: rocktuff on August 13, 2013, 11:16:28 AM
agreed and what do ya think of a traing tree to chop on...
yes, please.
yeah I dunno don't really wanna complain because I do love Pandora inside and out but seeing some of these scrolls and the if we could get a training tree to chop on ill feel like my input matters here as a faithful and loyal player... :D
All scrolls have exactly the same drop rate.
Training tree, maybe.
IF you look at the ratio of skills vs the crafting skills of course they will be more rare :)
But i can say i have gotten crafting PS's also people need to look at vendors more carfully
I just stocked up on alchemy 110 and 105 PS's the other day i found :)
Perhaps crafting powerscrolls (especially the 120's) might be added to the Donation Store.
On a side note, does the ps points turn-in drop all scrolls or just certain ones? (is it the same chance as dropping at a champ?)
If im not mistaken you can already purchase any skill up to 120, or at least the skills available to go up to 120 in the donation store....Nigel
Some crafting scrolls already have 2 ways to get them. For the rest. Well.......honestly looks like people need to do more champs. I had to hunt for all mine, but got most either paying through the nose, or doing champs.
I do really like the training tree. Nothing sucks more than training 120 LJ at .1/per day or so.
Quotehonestly looks like people need to do more champs
lol
:).
Its rare, but they do drop. I got all my crafting scrolls from champs, except blacksmithy and tailoring. Even my 120 imbue was from a champ. I think all i need now is a 120 alchemy. If you dont believe that they will drop at all, you can always gamble and trade 2 for 1 at the ps exchange barrel.
But keep in mind, some skills dont have ps. Like poisoning.
Not sure if this the best place to post this but how about making Nera the crafting ps champ. The hp is 1.3 million or so and very difficult to kill. It takes about 3 hours to kill it. You sure earn what ever you get.
I hate that more then Doom. LOL....Nigel
Yes, I agree but a payoff is at the end.
I like that idea.
And Dwarvey could show us how many champs he kills per day, so we can learn all from him. :)
irony
I have killed Neira one time and got the worst powerscroll payoff ever from her. I have Nightmares about that day still..
;D wow I myself love that idea have neira be a boss to give craft powerscrolls for a reward of a long fight this would be Epic
I regret I haven't active in the past couple of months due to personal issues, and working 2 jobs for a while. The 2 jobs issue is done for now since I was let go at my main job. However I will be trying to get back to doing champs again baring the wife's health needs.
So to answer your question about my champ activity. Right now 0. When I was active, well let's say we at Soul would do a few at a crack then share all of the scrolls as needed.
:-X but if none else Im telling ya a giant Training tree next to the training elements so we could hack on it indeffinatly to help raise lumberjacking would be sweet
QuoteWhen I was active, well let's say we at Soul would do a few at a crack then share all of the scrolls as needed.
Maybe you've missed the irony.
But same here: And i may say that i am sure i did more champs than you did. A long time ago, there you are right, drop chances of (higher and also rarer) PS's were better. It has been changed long ago.
I know this won't be a popular interjection, but the question I have about this whole issue is: If everyone gets all the crafting powerscrolls, and everyone jumps to 120 skill in all the crafting areas, doesn't that serve to further isolate players from one another in a game that's supposed to be about interaction? What I mean is, if everyone can do everything for themselves, there isn't much need for trade except on artifacts and imbuing mats, and quite honestly, about a month after everyone 120's their skills, there won't be much market for imbuing mats, either, since everyone will have already maxed their gear with runes. Maybe I'm wrong, and I hope I am, but there's already far too few vendors offering anything of substance right now, and I feel that situation will only get worse if the scrolls start dropping like candy from a pinata. That's the end of my soon-to-be flamed opinion, so feel free to roast me over the coals now. Long Live Pandora! :-X
yeah true but come on I have had almost 80 million gold done 1000s of champs and in a over a year I have not EVER gotten or seen even 1 115 120 mining or 120 jack only option is to donate to get 120 I suppose, but I have donated tons of money as well, and just feel that these should be attainable in game. thus why I made this post to see if anyone else was having a problem seeing these particular scrolls
Please don't misunderstand my post and think I want the scrolls to be unattainable. I definitely understand your frustration, and would think, after that many hours of gameplay, anyone would have picked up a couple of the aforementioned scrolls. However, as Jason pointed out, there are a lot more non-harvesting and non-crafting scrolls than harvesting/crafting ones, and while it may feel like "they never drop", it might just be a case of really bad luck. Vorspire assures us they are all coded to drop, and a few players have chimed in saying they've acquired them recently, so we can perhaps hope the run of bad luck may be over.
I personally don't mind them being so rare, in the fact that it's a challenge to acquire them, but that's just me.
p.s. Don't get me wrong: I'll be first in line if the scrolls become available some easier way. I'm an rambling lunatic, not a martyr. :P
<<<bulk of this post deleted by author after he realized he was a raving lunatic and might just be a total jackarse. If you read it already, I apologize.>>>
I think Jason is wrong:
If chances for each scroll are equal, then it doesn't matter how many scrolls of each category exist.^^
Quote from: zaxarus on August 18, 2013, 05:13:34 AM
I think Jason is wrong:
If chances for each scroll are equal, then it doesn't matter how many scrolls of each category exist.^^
Yes, the chances are the same for each scroll, as Vorspire has said. But, when you look at the number of harvesting/crafting scrolls versus the number of non-harvesting/non-crafting scrolls available, your odds aren't so good:
There are a total of 58 skills in our game. Let's say 50 of these skills have powerscrolls available for them (I don't know the exact number). This means there are 4 scrolls per skill, giving us 200 possible scrolls.
At each Champ, you are awarded scrolls. I typically get two scrolls per drop, though I've heard some get three on occasion. Your chance for any
particular scroll, on each of these drops, is 1 in 200, meaning 199 times out of 200, you will NOT get the scroll you are looking for. Taking that a step further, this means there is a .5% chance of any particular scroll being awarded through each scroll drop.
If we are hoping for any scroll within a
particular skill, for instance any Mining scroll (there are 4 of them), then our chances improve slightly, to 4 in 200, or 2%.
If we are just trying for any scroll within a
particular group of skills, for instance any crafting/harvesting scroll in the entire lot, then our chances improve a bit. Now, we have a 40 out of 200 chance, or 20%. 20% is still not a winning average, so you are much more likely to lose than win.
The only way to improve the chances of getting these particular scrolls would be to raise their percentage likelihood of being selected higher than that of the other skills. Again, as Vorspire has said, each scroll has the same chance of dropping, so it just boils down to the odds. I'm not a betting man, but if I were, I'd bet your next drop won't have the scroll you are looking for (but it could).
If you go by chances the categories should not matter. Even if there was only one harvesting skill: If the chances are equal, then it has the same chance to drop as any other skill.
All math you made does not matter, simply because if you see the total of all possible scrolls, a category may not matter (or chances wouldn't be equal).
Hypothesis:
"The drop chances of each PS are equal."
Then it won't matter if there is a scroll in one or another category. The categories are categories. For chances, that's my THEORY, you should regard all scrolls for themselves.
If not, then the chances are not equal, because they are not the same then for each category. ;)
Don't get me wrong:
I understand the math you just did.
BUT:
Do not think in categories. Think for each single scroll. If the chances are equal (and that has been said here), then the chance for an Imbuing PS is the same as it is for a Mace Fighting PS.
May i give an example then:
1. Imbuing is in the category "Magic".
2. Magery is in the category "Magic".
How often did you get an Imbuing Scroll (doesn't matter how high) and how often did you get a Magery 120 PS?^^
--
Let's say you are right:
There are 10 different skills in the category "Trade Skills" and 12 in "Magic".
1. Why are Imbuing PS drops so rare then (see above)?
and, more important:
2. If the difference between "Trade Skills" and "Magic" is only 2, why do i get Magery PS all the time (including 120's!) but no Fletching 105?^^
There are 11 skills in "Combat" and 10 in "Trade Skills":
Why do i get a Healing PS at almost every champ then, and in 5 of 10 times even 120, but no trade skill PS?
There are only 4 (!!) skills in the category "Bard", but there are 10 in "Trade Skills":
So why do i get a Discordance, Provocation almost every time, why do i get Musicianship in 9 out of 10 champs, but no trade skill PS?
So where is the error then?
Please?
I'm only going by what Vorspire has told us. With that number of skills, and that number of scrolls, each scroll has an individual .5% chance of dropping. Now, if there is something else being figured into that equation, maybe that changes things.
The fact that some people are getting some of these drops, though, attests to the fact that they ARE dropping, albeit too slowly for some folks' tastes.
I can't account for the reason magery 120 drops often and Imbue does not. I can only calculate using the given parameters. And, given the fact Vorspire has said it is working correctly, I would assume he's checked it and is satisfied with how it is running, so our debating it here isn't going to change much. ;)
%5 drop crafting scroll champions ? ohhh ohhh noooo :o
Funniest thing happened to me last night after tons of bitching I got a 105 and 110 lumberjack during my first champ of the day even though I need 120 now atleast I saw a drop...