Greetings!
I'm frankly new to the shard (only 16 days) and i loove the diversity it offers.
I quite enjoy no skillcap, and the fact that i can make my toon a master of all trades. I've made a decent PvM character and started grinding in order to obtain gear to build my pvp suit. But the happy times cannot last forever....
I understand that some changes and tweaks need to be made in order to balance the economy, however imho the changes need to be imoplemented cautiously - not to discourage the new player base. I'm gonna share a couple of my oppinions which are an outcome of my Pandora gameplay experience, specifficaly 2 issues:
1. Treasures of Tokuno - they used to be obtainable at whole Tokuno landmass - no longer - you can only get them in 2 location, at intervals (except for tuesdays...). Result - old players have banks loaded with ToTs, while newbs need to grind the same boring locations frequently getting PK'd.
2. PCoin room price changes - this is outrageus. Not only old players have already all their luck suits boosted by +200 luck deeds, not only have they already bought blesses reg bags and resource boxes - but above all most coin mob spots have been marked and are camped 24/7 making it insanely hard for new players to obtain pcoins in the first place. What's more - now the prices have been doubled which makes it even more discouraging. I understand it's the move to boost the $ shop sales...
Don't take it as a rant. I'm not raging - just sharing my point of view. Anyway my personal Pandora experience has been killed by the changes.
While I agree with everything you said, look at it from the shard staff angle, they had to fix the tot situation somehow but how? You could decrease the drop rate but having a general (kill anything) drop like the tots means it will still get farmed and you will still be flooded just slower, decrease it more and nobody is getting any tots at all. They did the best fix they got on this 1, the drop rate is not terrible but the timing doesnt allowe continuous farming. and yeah, new players have it much tougher then those before but what else can be done right? Although I would have to say that having to hunt in particular areas for the drops invites constant pking, it seems like it would be better to have shorter tot "events" but have them continent wide (hunt anywhere)...
As far as coins go, it would be nice to be able to trade gold for pan coins, that way even if you cant get the spawns you could still make descent numbers of coins. Just an idea.
what the heck!?
i just checked the coin room after i read this post.... c'mon - serious?
2,6k for the reag bag? 2,5k for spell channeling deed... luck deed 1,7k... this makes me extremely sad.
I didnt like the ToT-drop thing too - but i can live with it... but THIS!? cmon... plz change the prices back to what they used to.
It already was fricking expensive but now it's just.... can't even find words for it.
Please Kon & Gizmo - change the prices back to what they were.
Tricky situation all around. For the most part I also agree with the OP. That being said all games in existence give advantage to the vets, this is no exception. P-coin collection/purchases is a reward for allegiance to the shard, and the items gained through this method should take a significant amount of time. None of the items in the P-coin room are necessary for the majority of game play.
I can see how anyone could think the opposite, but in reality it's probably best if artifact quality items remain rare, not extremely rare, but rare. This is a catalyst for co-op play. Can't survive the dojo solo? Bring a group. PKers are opportunistic predators, and will probably leave a group alone.
After spending thousands and I mean thousands of pandora coins on +200 luck deeds I am going to warn that luck adds very little to Doom chances. With 0 luck you have a 1.5% chance of getting an artifact from the dark father. With 2400 luck I have a 2% chance of getting an artifact. For the lesser doom mobs its .75% chance and for me is only 1%. Also the upgraded loot on mobs is hardly if at all noticeable. I have done quite a few peerless's solo and all I have ever walked away from these peerless's with is reagents. Never looted a single item work taking even with 2400 luck.
i agree with deadmaus on this one ... i also have a high luck suit that i spent a LOT of coins on, it increases drops, but sometimes ya wonder if it's working :-)
if you make coins available for gold, then the vets who have the most gold are again at an advantage
the best way is to get more coins ... i keep an eye on our voting standings on the five different shards we use with the voting stones, just out of curiosity and a desire to see the shard grow ... we have at best 25% of the shard voting daily (and it's probably way lower given that we have had a max of 270 folks on)
that's at least 1000 coins daily from the non voters that would get injected into the economy ... might not sound like a lot, but remember even the ocean is made up of droplets
if we encourage {not spam!) folks to vote, ya might find we get ta buy/save coins quicker :-)
lol I do have to say to does look like they want to put the pvm'ers in the opportunity of the pk'ers .. kinda like paying them to be placed into Pandora's/Pulp Fiction's 'DN' Storage.
Not sure I care but it's how it's always looked to me lol
'DN' Storage Protector: Come inside my storage room.
PVM'er: Why?
'DN' Storage Protector: I have arties inside.
PVM'er: But I'll get ganked by reds.
'DN' Storage Protector: That's just so they won't leave the shard.
PVM'er: *silence*
'DN' Storage Protector: You're contributing in this way.
PVM'er: ummm ..
PVM'er *makes an alt they don't care about aka farmer*
lol bel ... erm ... i'm a bit slow today ..not quite getting yer post ... mebbe it's the donkey ears growing out the sides of me head?
i could be wrong but i think he's implying that the tokuno mines/dojo is set for pkers to farm trammies that want tots somehow purposely?
No accusations or implications there, just that's what I think he's saying
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-7f7vVCqvI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-7f7vVCqvI)
Nah not sayin' it's doing anything but contributing. A lot of these dudes don't like getting killed so what are they going to do? Make a trash character so their titles don't get jacked and so they don't have to care as much if they die.
H*ll, I don't care who gets killed because I don't really PVP or PVP. I've made it pretty clear I sell tamed creatures and runebooks/sets so this is an objective view. I go to the fel ruleset facets all the time and ganks I those places make me $$$ because I mark them so people don't have to walk that 'mile' Cool, kill 'em. lol
But objectively, ya, I know PVM'ers and that's what a lot would do. What's important to a PVP'er isn't important to the PVM'er and vise versa; totally different motivations, usually, and interests. Just sayin' changing stuff this way isn't always going to help because the sh*t's gotta be policed if you can't trust folks. Looks like they're letting the reds do it for them and something to do to boot.
If you can read past my typo's lol There's a purple dot on my wall with a green halo and if I look at it it starts crawling down the wall. If I blink it's back where it was again. Joke!
On some prescribed steroids and pain meds with an infection shot for some torn muscles. Messin' me up this week.
more (double) coins are needed to buy the same stuff.
with the influx of coins unchanged, this is a deflation. you get double the gold worth for your clicking time on the voting stones, but getting something from the coin room from just clicking vote stones is now completely impossible. you'll have to click every fricken day for quite some time for even the cheapest items.
i think only very few people will buy via pcoins in the future, so actually, the price on pcoins may go up a bit, because supply has literally been halved. then again, with fewer buyers, demand also lowers alot. and i think the lesser demand outshines the lower supply by a large amount.
Honestly, how much of that stuff does any of us -need-? I'm still having a lot of fun without any of it.
That's exactly the point I was trying to make. Makes clicking for pcoins less attractive IMO.
on this bit i disagree ... i don't think you should be clicking for p-coins for that reason ...
you should be clicking the voting stones for just that reason, to vote ... more votes = higher rankings on uoshard websites = more folks joining = better economy, more pvp/factions, more folks ta have fun with etc
the pcoins are an added bonus for voting ... you can also hunt for pcoin monsters, new ones were just put in recently, and i know of a couple that are usually there when i recall to them meaning they ain't being overly farmed yet .. takes some exploring, but ya already have the hint that they are in trammel facets
or you can hunt for gold/items to sell for gold, and buy from folks who vote and/or hunt coin bosses
as much as i personally dislike the the coin price increases in the donation room, (the adjusting of dex heal stuff etc), have a little faith in the powers that be ... so far within a few short months they have created a shard that now averages more folks than established shards such as eclipse or abc
changes aren't made to intentionally hurt or punish us, newcomers or veterans, they aren't made with any individual, or group of folks in mind, they are made to improve our overall long term enjoyment of the shard ... as players who are directly effected by these changes, sometimes in dramatic (and seemingly drastic) ways, we tend to not be able to see the forest for the trees :-)
True that. One thing, though, I see on any game is a wall between the veterans and newer players. Suppose that'll always be there and not much anyone can do about it. I'd like to see that 'perfect' game made right off the bat. It won't happen and there won't be any room for change. Change is good .. usually. At least it means we have an active and thinking staff and player base.
Skr*w P Coins. I vote because I want more people to buy my stuff hahaa
i agree on the idealistic approach of your reply. ofcourse, players voting for the better of the shard is what everyone should do.
but let's be realistic. 12,5k coin and 5 pcoins was a decent source of income during their starting days, and most people click for what they get instantly.
trying to incorporate your view on this thing won't change the economic influence it has. then again, i see the voting stones go down in importance even more now, since half of the reward is kinda useless if only very few people want pcoins, and 12,5k gold is only decent at the start on the shard, now more than ever.
Man, an extra 12.5 K (what I get) is a nice Reg padding in itself. Why up it more? Pandora Coins should be worth something .. to someone.
People are missing the big picture of voting on the stones, the real true reward is more players. With more players joining the server everything becomes better because more people to do things with on the shard. I have not been on the shard as long as dleatherus but I have been on it since fairly early days of it. Look at the 6 month trend of the shard since it has gone public
(http://www.joinuo.com/ClientsGraph.aspx?i=300&r=181)
That trend is only possible because of the players voting.
Sweet! That's good for everyone, whether blue or red.
thanks bel & deadmaus .. seems i'm not alone in voting on the stones not for the coins, but to help the shard grow
and yes kanu, my view is admittedly idealistic, but if you read my comments, you'll see that they are grounded in realism ... and naturally i post my view, as you do yours, and hence the discussion :-)
since i don't really have an opinion on the topic at hand, i'm only trying to find out what effects the new prices of items in the coin room have.
i can only tell you that before, i could try and save up my 5 pcoins/day for something like a pet bonding deed, but now, that would mean 20 days of voting straight, if i don't wanna rely on hunting coin mobs or spend gold on them.
think of me as the lazy type of player, and maybe representative for quite some on this shard.
i always vote after clicking btw, because i enjoy how this shard is growing and everyone likes to be with lots of people to play with. this, however, has nothing to do with the economic influence of the price change :)
Or, instead of waiting 20 days to bond by voting, you can wait only 7 by stabling your pet and not using it.
that's not the point, lol. then again, you have a point by calling it luxury, but i thought we had that already, and i agreed :)
hehe It's cool, my friend. I explained in the other topic we're following. ^5 for sayin' how you feel!
i also always voted on website when i clicked the stones, because i loved to see the shard growing - but if the prices will stay like they r now - i have to stop clicking those stones and thus voting for the shard.
One reason for this is that i dont want new players coming to the shard and farming coin mobs, too - that would be even less coins for me - now that i need more, lol
I'm really curious y they threw this stealth-nerf on the servers. Like i mentioned before the prices weren't too "cheap" - i still only got 400 coins now, after playing almost 2 months. I vote almost every day and try to kill as many coin mobs as possible. (if they arent already killed by you guys :P)
Of course u can say that those items arent needed to play - but then they should never have been implemented imo. Vets already had many benefits - just to name one: ToTs.
And the coin-prices have already been raised before 2-3 months i heard - dunno if it's true. Besides coin mobs were way easier to farm when less players were "farming" them.
I really hope that staff will think about that dramatical price-increase again.
In my opinion there were a certain few items in the coin room that were under priced while others were overpriced. Was spell channeling too cheap? I think so but I think 1700 for +200 luck is way too expensive. The stable stone was originally 200 coins, it then went to 500 coins now its 1500 coins. While 200 was probably really cheap 1500 actually sounds about right for such an item since pet leashes server the same purpose kinda of.
The only problem with increasing nearly everything in the coin room as they did is that there are still a limited number of coin boss locations and more and more people discovering and farming them all. The demand has gone up drastically while the supply remains the same.
Another thing is that coin mobs are the only thing in the game to get earrings or necklaces with stats on them aside from the one pendant of the magi recipe.
Jasper's not going to be safe anymore. That's all I know.
I agree with the people who said it will discourage voting, I used vote every day and now I notice myself forgetting to do it, not on purpose but just because its no longer as high of a priority in my head... And I DO believe in voting for the shard good, but psychology is a crazy thing uknow.
The prices are a bit strange too, if luck doesnt do much for artie drops then 1000+ per luck deed is not worth the coins in any way. Things like the insta bond food are a nice convenience but once again past a certain point its no longer a convenience.
I think part of the problem is the "god" concept, you can change things from the cloud in the sky but to see what effect they really have you have to come down to earth and walk as a sheep with the sheep. Know what I mean?
Hi all,
I think these changes are not only bad, also to newbees as I, currently the request for pcoins are doubled through the changes. Market Price follows this double but slower. Currently you can sell at 6k, i think i will go up to 10k because of shortage.
So as a newbee it makes also worth voting in economics aspects, you vote and have 12,5 k plus the 5 pcoins for 50 k thats for starting a decent amount of Gold.
For a veteran it makes things more pricy, but this how economics work. And i don't think it hurts sooo much.
Also some people who farm pcoins before update will now bring them to market and sell them (Price will go down) because its now worth.
I think all in one this is an economic change:
- You have to wait longer to earn an item you don't need
- You can better sell these items
- The offer of pcoins will in the long run increase, cause selling makes sense (not only for newbs)
- as a newbee you even have faster gold
I think seeing pcoin room as a reward room not as a cool shopping mall, will also increase the sense for player shops more, because you can't upgrade your items such easy.
These are my points of view as a Newbee-Player on Pandora.
Kind regards,
Ssin'eoul
^^^, k lets do some math, so lets say I need 2000 coins for the item I want, I want to buy those coins. Now, lets say that the new players are farming the coins at 5 per day. So, it would take 10 people, 40 DAYS to make enough coins for me to get that 1 item. Sure its profitable for them at some level but for only the new new new people cause 50k is a joke for anyone else. If the price does shoot up that high, know whats going to happen? All the veteran players will be camping ALL the coin bosses and nobody else will get ANY coins because it just became the most profitable thing on the shard.
right now i dont really know what to do with my pcoins. sell them? keep them? not sure if the vet players will now camp the coin mobs, i just killed Jasper. then again, i'm playing at euro times, so that may shift some things for me.
mmm ... i'm missing something here
why would only the vet players camp the coin bosses????
a newcomer can join, bring up taming, just like the vets did, and get a nice pet, just like the vets did, get a rune book of coin boss locations, (the vets had to crawl around the entire world looking for coin boss spawns)and farm away ... literally within a matter of days ... the majority of coin boss locations are in tram rules facets so new or old players have no fear of getting pk'd
they just put in more coin bosses to allow for the growing population of the community
a lot of the vets i have discussed this topic with have cut way back on their coin farming since they now have their luck suits, blessed bags etc, or have enough money that they buy the coins from others who have taken over hunting for them, and spend their time doing other things
out of curiosity i recalled around my somewhat pitiful collection of coin boss spots ... i have one rune book filled with spots, i know of folks who have three books!!!! ... of the 14 spots i recalled to, 11 of them had coin bosses up ... hardly a case of coin bosses being being farmed by anybody, vet or newcomer
I said it will happen if the price of the coins skyrockets, hasnt happened yet. Its a simple fact, you make something extremely profitable and it will become extremely competetive. More coin bosses and faster respawn times would avoid some of the problem...
You also have to remember that: not every new player knows the game well enough to get a greater dragon in 2 days, or enough to know where to look for new bosses, or enough to survive fighting half of them. Something that seems easy to an experienced player can take weeks for many others.
Let me break this down.
Pandora Coins are easy to get, I mean you get 10 voting twice a day. So something like a spell channeling deed and reg bag, those things are very expensive items and very useful. Also take in count, I change prices all the time, and how I change that is I can see how many Pandora Coins are on the shard and I use a equation on how much average each person has etc etc. Dont worry the prices will go down soon again, but since we have been growing so fast there has been a surge of Pandora Coins. Last thing I want to do is have those items to easily obtained, and then what? You have everything you want and you get bored. The point of Ultima Online is to go on a journy. Should a newbie even be able to be close to get a reg bag? No, must be worked for. It's part of the adventure, make it so there is always a goal.
But the prices will go back down, I am waiting a couple of days.
Also keep in mind we are adding in soon, that everytime you do a PVM event, you will get some coins for showing up, when we put in the pvp event, the 1st and 2nd will get coins. We have a lot more ideas for getting coins easier, and there are coin monsters all over the shard.
Treasures of Tokuno
We believe in high risk = high reward. ToT's again should be things that are a challenge, so it forces you to use teamwork so you don't get pked. And really if you think about it, it makes it more fun, the cat and mouse game. Also the greater ToT's are so good, the last thing I want is flooding shard with them.
If you could get them all over tokuno? (like it was before) people will just camp champ spawn in tokuno and get 10 lesser tots in no time, then a month down the road everyone has the best greater tots and boom they are not worth anything anymore.
Also If you read the updates -- Every week on Tuesday is Tokuno ToT day - Meaning you can get ToT's anywhere in Tokuno - and that is a Trammel Facet, so look there, we even balanced it out for very new players... Wait till Tuesday to collect it.
People will always complain when things become challenging, but that is part of the game and the job of a shard owner I expect that. But 80% of the shard has complete trust in Gizmo and my decisions. We are all on the same team, with 30 Years combined experience of UO on our team, please trust what were doing is best in the long. All I can ask is for faith and know we will continue to make balance and the shard #1.
Just one more note from my post above.
(by the way I have lowered some Pandora Coin prices due to people spending them last day or 2)
Kellog's Corn Flakes cost 10 cents in 1908
2010 around $4.00 dollars?
Like real life. We will adjust. :)
lol just to complete this - The average wage in the U.S. was 22 cents per hour in 1906 :lol: