Risk vs Reward...

[Aaliah]

Oh one more thing.. Shimmering bothers me too, but it pays the expensive server bills. Also a Shimmering only really owns monsters, not players. (this was changed a bit last patch)

I don't really wanna coment on the rest of the replies to this, so I'll avoid making a new thread to point something in this thread: the hiryus were said to be "fixed", doing less damage to players, but I still got owned by shimmering hiryus like 3 or 4 times after the patch when i withered a satyr and one was provoked on me, or w/e.  :?

[Jaxtron]

Postby Astax » Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:37 am

You guys are very silly. You say PK has no risk, that's not true, he can die also. Maybe he is less likely to die because has pvp suit and not a Luck suit. But guess what! His reward is also much smaller. He gets few K from killing you. Even if he kills your monster he doesn't wear luck suit. And your risk is very small. You only lose item insurance and some regs. You can get phat loots so your reward is high.

I have to disagree with this.  If you are out to pk, you only have your minimum requirements and of course everything you have, if possible, is insured.  So you run up, kill someone while they are fighting a mob and loot everything they have gained in the last two hours or so of hunting.  Where exactly is your risk?  If we manage to kill you instead, we get nothing except of course, you coming and trying again.

What exactly are you risking?  Death?  Ok, 600gp each item insured.  We risk 600gp each item plus everything we have gained while hunting.

I am fine with pvp, I have a bank stone and throw everything I get that is any good.  I just get tired of all the "risk vs reward" justification to try and encourage pvm to go to Fel based lands when I see no risk on the pvp side.

[Dleatherus]

aailah ... i told gizmo about the shimmer still being pvp uber right after the last update, and my understanding is, it'll get fixed shortly ... i think the poor bugger is working hard to get the pvp event system done, so the twits who think 'all kill' with a shimmer on a red is pvp will still have fun fer another week or so

[Astax]

Why would you have 2 hours worth of loot on you? I don't get it... Bag of sending maybe? If you carry so much loot on you, and get killed for it, I can't really see how you can blame anyone but yourself.

[Jaxtron]

New postby Astax » Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:02 pm

Why would you have 2 hours worth of loot on you? I don't get it... Bag of sending maybe? If you carry so much loot on you, and get killed for it, I can't really see how you can blame anyone but yourself.

And yet you still have not listed a valid risk.  I don't get that...  Show me your risk to justify your reward which is the entire purpose of this thread.

[Domos]

I agree, there should in fact be a difference between the reds and the blues. Having reds not being able to visit blue towns was a good and a bad thing. I wont talk about the bad but the good was: reds had to stay on their toes in fel, red on red fighting was some of the best pvp out there, but also it put like minded people togeather forming strong red/blue (pk/apk) guilds. In the end it made for great battles at the hot spots.
 But after a while every good blue player ended up going red anyways, over the years the balance of power shifted impossibly towards the reds, at least on all the osi shards Ive seen. Thats when you got 5-10 blues hugging the yew gates surrounded by reds in stealth, shooting popshots at each other, not fun and not good pvp.
 But, a penalty for being red should be there, something to separate the two. Id say making reds attackable in blue towns or having them open for stealing could be a good thing. Blues having to keep on their toes in fel, reds having to do the same in tram. Balance?

[Diarmuid]

We've all questioned: What's the risk for the Red, but what about what is their reward? Others will have to correct me if I'm wrong, but the reward isn't great: Reg bags, bandages, dingy uninsured stuff, unless you find a fat cow that didn't donate for a bankstone.

How often do Reds find these loot cows? On the darker side, why does a previous poster in this thread insinuate that they deserve it if they don't bank their stuff pronto via bankstone or bag of sending? That borders on saying the woman deserved her rape. It's too easy for the oppressor to degrade the victim. Make no mistake, those getting pk'd are victims.

My guess is that the reward is so infrequently good, that farming artifacts and champ spawns yourself produces better rewards than trying to catch out those who haven't insured/banked their good loot. Is this true? If it is, that means the reward is something else, and likely, it's the thrill of the hunt. If that is the reward, there really isn't any downside except to their 'pride', and having to re-equip potions if they happen to attack the wrong party.

So, that's my question, What is the Reward of being a Red? Maybe that will help define the risk?

[Astax]

You are getting off tangent here. Tossing out Hyperbole and such really doesn't help. Yes the player deserves it, because that situation can be mitigated 100%. If they take the prudent course of action by protecting their assets. The PK is not responsible for you not protecting your earnings. His reward really only scales with your willingness to take risk for higher profit margins.  With bankstones and bless reg bags the risk goes down to almost nothing!

[Jaxtron]

You are getting off tangent here. Tossing out Hyperbole and such really doesn't help. Yes the player deserves it, because that situation can be mitigated 100%. If they take the prudent course of action by protecting their assets. The PK is not responsible for you not protecting your earnings. His reward really only scales with your willingness to take risk for higher profit margins. With bankstones and bless reg bags the risk goes down to almost nothing!

I love that you keep posting yet still have no good answer as to what you are risking.  Don't say death as we know with insurance and no stat loss or penalty that is a joke on the PKs side and the odds are on your side of a win due to the equipment and preparation.

As for the reward PKs are getting, apparently it isn't the loot as I guess everyone uses bags of sending and bank stones.  So basically, you are running around, trying to catch people unaware or involved with another battle so you can slaughter them to not get much loot?  So it is bragging rights?  "Hey, I killed this PVM!!  Yea, he was half dead and in the middle of a battle but I rule!".  Not bragging rights?  The challenge and thrill of a battle?  Then how about giving them an option of preparing or better yet, how about the duel system?  No?  So what then, the ability to screw with someones game with no risk or penalty. Yea, that sounds like a winner.

Sorry, don't mean to lump all PKs in to the same group.  I have hunted with some excellent reds.  They can be an great group of players and a lot of fun.  But then, that was back in the old days when there was a risk of going red.

[Deadmau5]

There is risk and there is reward people are just blind.  The reward is the greater quality of items that can be obtained in pvp faucets.  The risk is being vulnerable to anyone who chooses to attack.

Now the pks also have a risk too because they are also vulnerable to anyone who chooses to attack but no one has attempted to take the fight to the pk's yet.  You are busy complaining about not having an easy mode to get all the items you want on this forum.  Most of the best items also come from bod rewards or crafted items as well which can all be obtained in tram.

[Jaxtron]

I don't think we are blind.  I think more likely we just have different opinions.  You think as a PK, in your equipment for PvP you are risking as much as us, in our luck suit and carrying what ever we have gained so far in our adventuring that we haven't throwing into the bank yet. I disagree.  We are at a stand still in this.

The server will continue, Reds will do what and go where they want.  PvM players will put up with the "encouragement" to hunt in Fel based lands or they wont.  If things go as some want with anything good only being in the Fel based lands, I am concerned for the population of the server.  Obviously there is concern that not enough PvM players go to Fel based lands, thus the "encouragement".  I am not a doom-and-gloom type of person.  I hope it all works out as I have spent more in donations on this server in the last few months than I usually spend on a pay server in a year.  By donating, I hope to contribute to the longevity of a very fun and so far, balanced server.  

And I love how it always goes back to "easy mode".  Like the PKs want a challenge so they attack while others are involved in a battle or when they outnuber?  Or better yet, rez kill?  Yea, what a challenge.  That's definitely "hard mode".

[Jaxtron]

And I love how it always goes back to "easy mode". Like the PKs want a challenge so they attack while others are involved in a battle or when they outnuber? Or better yet, rez kill? Yea, what a challenge. That's definitely "hard mode".

I would like to change the last sentence to be SOME PKs.  Like I said earlier, I have hunted with reds before.  Some are great but you can't ignore the comments in [c concerning the acts of others.

[Deadmau5]

There is no stand still you are just ignorant to realize that there is more to fel than loot.  There are rewards of killing other people and gaining points in pvp and rewards for killing opposing faction for rank as well.  Loot is a bonus too and there is so much fel lands that the about 160 players we have on this server could hunt and never run into someone their entire day.  I hunt in fel all day on my blue and honestly I rarely will encounter another person trying to kill the same things I am.  I go days without seeing anyone else in fel.

And like I said the best gear in this game does not come from fel but it is crafted with runics or craftable artifacts.  All of which can be obtained without ever going into fel.

[Articus]

I second the statement that most of the BEST gear will come from crafting with Runic crafting tools, craftable recipes from heartwood or britain/vesper donations.
 So everyone that wants to get "geared up" start bodding ffs. Throw on your PvP suit (which you crafted yourself) and jump into the Dojo/mines while the stones are green and get the rest of your Tokuno arties. Maybe even have some fun running around with reds and blues trying to pk/not be pked. Just try and ENJOY

[Jaxtron]

There is no stand still you are just ignorant to realize that there is more to fel than loot. There are rewards of killing other people and gaining points in pvp and rewards for killing opposing faction for rank as well.

Now the pks also have a risk too because they are also vulnerable to anyone who chooses to attack but no one has attempted to take the fight to the pk's yet. You are busy complaining about not having an easy mode to get all the items you want on this forum. Most of the best items also come from bod rewards or crafted items as well which can all be obtained in tram

Can you tell me where I said I want easy mode?  Or where I claimed there was nothing to do in fel based lands but go for loot?  Or where I said I was interested in PvP which is pretty much everything you listed as things to do in Fel?  

It all started as a simple question, what do the PvPs risk in their play style.  After several responses from both sides, I didn't really see anything that was truly a risk on the PvP side.  You guys are the ones spouting the Risk vs Reward mantra after all.  

Sorry, I was trying to end this nicely in that we have different opinions.  I am not impressed with your argument.  I can put up with children in the game trying to grief other players because they can.  I can put up with the same on the forums.  Doesn't hurt me...  

Have fun.