Risk vs Reward...

[Domos]

And now OSI is overrun with reds, doing champs there is impossible unless you bring a small army. And its not so much the being pkd for the scrolls thats really the problem, its the having a kill stolen from you that is. Ive had this happen with medusa and slasher, someone runs up and just kind of joins in and gets equal rights to the loot with enough damage, and what can you do? No, stop, wtf... At least if the champ is closed, you get to kill the boss, get your scrolls and try to make it out. Or you could stay and try to loot the champ, take off and get nothing but scrolls or stay and get other items. Either way the red still get a shot at the scroll, its just not a complete cluster funk for the champ team.
And as far as the other system, I didnt explain it enough. If a red kills someone blue, that blue player and ONLY that player gets one free shot at them in town. The free shot has a time limit, if the red kills the same blue character again within the time limit, the blue now has 2 free shots in town and the timer is reset. If the blue kills the red once, one of the free shots is used up, the timer is reset. The reds can still go to trammel towns but they have to watch their backs for the players they have killed within x number days, nobody else could attack them in town but two or more of the victim players could team up and go after the red as a group... Think of it as a mob justice system, you wrong enough people and nobody will stop them when they come after you in town.

[Belegerandh]

Disclaimer

I really wish we had an 'edit' feature so I wouldn't have to make another 'reply'.

Really, DM, I have respect for your opinion and have read many of them here, in many cases where I've not read everything else. That's kind of why I wanted to pick your brain here and feel a little surprised by your reasoning. So if I seem like I'm jacking with you it's with respect, even if I seem a little irked.

What I actually had to say

I am not saying this shard is like OSI in any way but that OSI had the same risk vs reward systems where champion spawns were only in fel and did not tailor to the needs of trammies.

Not even in (OSI) Fel were the safety or concerns of reds catered to on OSI. One group did, however, and one group we really don't see here. Those were the role players who made RP towns and RP guilds. Almost every one of the guilds had an abundance of them and they bought up properties for outrageous prices which were next to one another, making the 'towns' themselves. Not every RP guild would allow PK entry but most would and many of the RP 'taverns' too.

Also reds could not duel each other safely if there were banned from tram zones.

What I find striking in your reply was you expressed concern over other reds interfering in what you like to do, which is sometimes dueling. Well, being blue is the same thing and why some of us are expressing our opinions on the matter. We deal with it all the time from -every- red and even the blues who are about to become grey or red on us in what we like to do, which is hunt these game 'monsters', retarded 2D graphics which haven't evolved fully from the Commodore 64 'sprite' graphics. Kind of a therapy for some of us after work and I am sure you can relate to that in the things you like to do being therapeutic.

Hell, on OSI you had to be clever to even use a bank if you were red: they didn't cater to reds. If you wanted to be a murderer you had to deal with consequences.


My final point, incase you don't want to read all of that lol

Ok, so maybe this isn't OSI. I know it's not but you refer to it to make a case and one I can't see. Ya, I think it's great reds have place here but diminishing 'blue' privilege for the sake of 'red' convenience is what we're talking about. 'Privilege' like our skills such as stealth which are being weakened, what we use to try to bypass you guys who should be using your tracking anyway if you want to kill us. Why should it be easier for you to kill us and we not have a say about it? Those are your lands, basically, right? Why aren't you adapting and why are we losing the ability to?

[Dr Seuss]

Did any of you guys play before there was no tram?? I mean seriously it's always the same argument about the blue people not getting to do the things they want to in fel without the fear of being pked. That is why its FEL. Now I will admit that maybe the TOT drops being fel based might be aggravating but outside of that I don't see why there is such a big fight over this. You guys are basically saying let's take the fun away from people who like to pvp so noone has to worry about being killed. I think that sucks. Reds/blues or whoever have the same amount of risk that anyone does in fel. I see red characters in fel hunting monsters and trying to get loot just the same as blues. Both types of characters can be attacked during their hunt right? Both are risking insurance money or the loot you dont have time to insure right?  So what is the argument cuz I am lost. The stealthing situation isnt cool but it has been addressed and they are gonna work on it so let them have time to do that. I have been on this shard 2 months and I have played OSI a long time. I dont see them catering to pvp players at all really here. I think it's great that reds are allowed in town. I know there used to be a few downfalls by being red and not being in tram towns but jeez there are only 150 people on the shard. Why make reds just stay in fel with so few of people?

[pskarren]

i think the argument is their isnt a penalty for going red besides no virtues and not buying from npcs.. i think blues should be freely able to attck murders in tram myself.. and murders should be able to defend themelves.. it would make fun times in insula.. the lynch mob comes..

[Martin Looter]

i think there like 2 main problems on this shard (the same that are on lots of others too).

1) i think there are lots of players that like pvp and want to do pvp but they simply cant when new to the shard. since aos you need gear to compete. at least semi decent gear.
in my opinion there should be at least tokuno OR ilshenar areas tram rules.. so newbies can aquire minor artis to start pvp.

2) easy champ spawns will always be raided.. thats no problem in itself. the problem is that those guild who raid the champs dominate in gear and skill anyways =) its kind of a monopoly..
i dont think this needs to be changed..

just change the acquisition of minor arties so new players are able to compete.

btw..
is it true that collecting 10 smaller tots wont let you choose the greater tot? i dont get what thats about.. it just makes the game more repetitive and boring.. no point in it really

[tweekzz]

1) i think there are lots of players that like pvp and want to do pvp but they simply cant when new to the shard. since aos you need gear to compete. at least semi decent gear.
in my opinion there should be at least tokuno OR ilshenar areas tram rules.. so newbies can aquire minor artis to start pvp.

that'd be awesome, probably relatively easy to change too.. because the way it stands now, its pretty damn tough.

[Balithustrious]

I personally hate getting Player Killed, but I look forward to the challenge more than any other aspect of this game. I go into Felucca hoping for better money, better loot, better resources, and a good solid beating from Lord Storey or Klone. It happens to me a ridiculous amount. One might expect me to rant about it- they've robbed me blind possibly seven times in three days, but I'm never going to say PKing is bad. I, in fact, think that anyone going into  Felucca is essentially asking for a fight.

I think that Player killing could be improved, however. Simply by making it possible for any blue, law-abiding player to attack any red or gray character in any trammel city would make things perfect. it's how being a criminal works, for pete's sakes. If you commit a crime, you do hard time- or, in this case, get ganked.

As for new players getting artifacts, it's already possible to get a sweet set of virtue armor in the anti-virtue dungeons. However, new players eventually get Grandmaster skills, and that combined with some decent hot keys can be lethal. I've made a pK run from me more than once (although they came back and ganked me) and know it's a matter of skill and experience. You can overcome their armor if you use armor ignore; their magery book's extra damage wont work if you drain their mana, and they can't chase you if you put up an energy field.

But eff the retarded "wouldst thou flee in the heat of battle?!?" message. That crap is ridiculous in all way, shapes, and forms. the only way I could ever appreciate it is if only the person who INITIATED the fight couldn't run. Joe Blow miner might need to leave, but since a band of PK's are after him ,he can't. Bullsh*t!

[tweekzz]

But eff the retarded "wouldst thou flee in the heat of battle?!?" message. That crap is ridiculous in all way, shapes, and forms. the only way I could ever appreciate it is if only the person who INITIATED the fight couldn't run. Joe Blow miner might need to leave, but since a band of PK's are after him ,he can't. Bullsh*t!

/agree

[Martin Looter]

I think that Player killing could be improved, however. Simply by making it possible for any blue, law-abiding player to attack any red or gray character in any trammel city would make things perfect. it's how being a criminal works, for pete's sakes. If you commit a crime, you do hard time- or, in this case, get ganked.

i can second this. i once played on a fel only shard (for a long time) where reds could enter all towns without being guardwhacked but blues could attack them (they could fight back after being attacked)

i think this is a nice solution cause reds always had to look for some blues making ready to gank the other way round

wanted to say this in my last post but forgot.. thx for adding this Balithustrious !

[Domos]

^^^ exactly, people want pvp lets give them pvp! Its just that they want to pvp but they also want to always have the element of surprise too, chill in complete safety, go out kill some people and return to the complete safety before anyone could hunt them down. If you cant see something wrong with that you are probably one of them...

[Astax]

This thread is 99% pointless.

However, I would like to know if this flee message really affects players who get attacked, because if it does I would certainly contest it as a terrible idea.  PvP in UO has always been the best because you always had 3 choices: Fight back, heal, or run. If you take out the ability to run away from a fight,t hen it quickly devolves to a battle of who has more on their side. It becomes as lame as WoW PvP, where it's hard for skill to triumph over pure number advantage, and thus is largely pointless.

[Mahavira]

It wouldn't work, because a blue could still help another blue without attacking the red. The red wouldn't be able to attack other blues who are helping the aggressor.

[Mahavira]

Nevermind, just thought about it. When a blue attacks a red, they could be flagged with some status and if another blue performs a beneficial act, they would become flagged too.

Make this happen.  

[Belegerandh]

Why? So the red doesn't get ganked? lol

[Mahavira]

Yes. Why would a red go into town, if they knew there were a gang of blues waiting and could only attack one of them? That would be pointless. It's not like they can buy anything in towns. If they could attack the aggressor's back, they might go looking for a fight.