yumi damage on armor penetration.

[Black Mamba]

that special is not capped ive had 60dmg ai's hit me is this intended?

[Mahavira]

It's not armor ignore (which is capped at 35), it's Armor Pierce and no, there's no cap.

No damage cap on Concussion Blow and Crushing Blow either.

[Black Mamba]

2 things it functions exactly the same as armor ignore this should be changed.

[Mahavira]

It's not like AI at all.

Armor Pierce: "Upon landing an Armor Pierce, 50% of the damage dealt is added as direct damage, with a possibility to damage the target's armor. It is very much like the Special Move Crushing Blow. By way of example, if one attacks a creature and averages 14 points of damage per hit, then the Armor Pierce attack will inflict 21 points of damage, i.e., fourteen plus half again, which is seven."

It's nothing like Armor Ignore. The only similarity is that the 50% damage increase ignores the targets resists. Whereas all of AI's damage is direct damage, with Armor Pierce, it's only the extra damage dealt. There's no cap on Armor Pierce, nor should there be.

The only good weapon with the ability is a Yumi and people should be using double shot anyway.

[Mita]

The breakdown...
The damage types are:
Direct Damage - capped at 35 dmg pvp
Physical
Fire
Cold
Poison
Energy
(Chaos) - Picks type randomly out of all except direct.

Armor Ignor is 100% Direct damage, normally capped at 35 pvp.

Armor Peirce is 100% normal damage + 50% Direct, of which up to 35 damage can be caused. The damaging opponant armor does not refer to durability. It actually refers to a temporary resist drop. Exact amount I'm uncertain, but it is very minimal. Likely 5% for a few seconds.



Damage is as follows (compared to a player with 70's resists):
[DS] Doulble Swing [AI] Armor Ignor [AP] Armor Pierce

[DS] 2* [0.3*(dmg) + HitSpellDmg]
[AI] [(dmg * 3.34)[cap35] + HitSpellDmg]
[AP] [(dmg * 0.5)[cap35] + 0.3*(dmg) + HitSpellDmg]

For number examples in pvp...
At 20 damage:
[DS] 12dmg + 2 seperate HitSpell chances (overlap, not combine)
[AI] 20dmg + 1 x HitSpell chance
[AP] 9dmg + 1 x HitSpell chance + lower resist chance

At 30 damage:
[DS] 18dmg + 2 seperate HitSpell chances (overlap, not combine)
[AI] 30dmg + 1 x HitSpell chance
[AP] 13dmg + 1 x HitSpell chance + lower resist chance

At 40 damage:
[DS] 24dmg + 2 seperate HitSpell chances (overlap, not combine)
[AI] 35dmg + 1 x HitSpell chance     [damage capped off]
[AP] 18dmg + 1 x HitSpell chance + lower resist chance

At 50 damage:
[DS] 30dmg + 2 seperate HitSpell chances (overlap, not combine)
[AI] 35dmg + 1 x HitSpell chance
[AP] 22dmg + 1 x HitSpell chance + lower resist chance

At 60 damage:
[DS] 36dmg + 2 seperate HitSpell chances (overlap, not combine)
[AI] 35dmg + 1 x HitSpell chance     [damage capped off]
[AP] 27dmg + 1 x HitSpell chance + lower resist chance

At 70 damage:
[DS] 42dmg + 2 seperate HitSpell chances (overlap, not combine)
[AI] 35dmg + 1 x HitSpell chance     [damage capped off]
[AP] 31dmg + 1 x HitSpell chance + lower resist chance    [DirDmg Capped, Deminished results]

At 80 damage:
[DS] 48dmg + 2 seperate HitSpell chances (overlap, not combine)
[AI] 35dmg + 1 x HitSpell chance     [damage capped off]
[AP] 36dmg + 1 x HitSpell chance + lower resist chance    [DirDmg Capped, Deminished results]
.
.
.
At 234 damage:
[DS] 140dmg + 2 seperate HitSpell chances (overlap, not combine)
[AI] 35dmg + 1 x HitSpell chance     [damage capped off]
[AP] 105dmg + 1 x HitSpell chance + lower resist chance    [DirDmg Capped, Deminished results]


[DS] will always be best on a low-resist computerAI mobile.
[AI] or [AP] will always be best on a high-resist computerAI mobile.

Over 55 damage, both DS and AP will do more damage than AI even without hit spell effects. Over 234 damage, AP's direct damage is capped and it begins to gain only around 1-2 damage per 10 damage you do. The total damage including HitSpell actually evens out the 3 skills up to about 40 damage. With NO HitSpell however, AI easily wins out until around 55 damage, assuming the player does have 70 resists. (or at least over 50%)

So with the 3 being relatively equals, why choose DS?
If the opponent does not have full resist, AI and AP influence the damage less while DS still does the same increase. Thus, DS is better. Period. However, one should consider the possibilities of mixing these 3 abilities in battle too. DS to test their resist... if low then DS all the way, else try AP for the -resist then DS away, or DS for HLD/HLA then AI, etc.

[Mahavira]

The extra damage is capped at 35? Since it's direct, that's what you're telling me? Any direct damage done by a weapon ability is capped at 35, that's what I've gathered from your post.

So you'd have to hit them for 70 + 35 (capped extra direct damage) for 105, just to hit the AP cap? What? Am I missing something here?  :shock:

I misunderstand what you mean by at 55 damage AP will do more than AI. If you have a weapon that hits for 25 damage, adding 12.5 with AP, you'll hit harder than AI. AP will do more than AI (37.5), since AI is pure direct damage which is capped at 35 :/

It's this part that confuses me: "Armor Peirce is 50% Direct, of which up to 35 damage can be caused. The other 50% is your weapon's normal damage (and damage types) halved." I need a link for this, it's my understanding that it's simply crushing blow for ranged weapons. A 50% damage increase which doesn't get lowered by the targets resists, since it's direct. Same as double strike/double shot are interchangeable.

[Mita]

The 50% / 50% means
Direct Damage = [ dmg*0.5 ] capped at 35
Other Damage = [ dmg*0.5*(100-TargetResist)/10 ]

It does not add any additional damage. If you do 50 damage (on your stats) then while using the skill you STILL do 50 damage. The difference is that half of your damage ignors resistances.

Or... you do 50 damage...

Half (25) is dealt as Direct Damage, for (25) damage. If you did 70+ damage, this damage would be 35. It will not go higher than that.

Half (25) is dealt through normal means (your dmg, but half). Maintains damage types for this portion of damage. So if you do 50% physical and 50% energy, then of that 50 damage, 25 damage is split up between those two for (12.5) + (12.5) subject to the resist of your target.

Total damage is the sum, or (25) + [(12.5)*resist] + [(12.5)*resist]

The important landmarks were 40 damage (Armor Ignor) and 70 damage (Armor Pierce). Those are the spots where damage basically ceases to increase in pvp.



Hope that clears you up.

[Mahavira]

No it doesn't. uoguide says it works exactly like I've explained and I haven't seen anything to suggest otherwise.

[Mahavira]

Tested out with bulls in Delucia.

56 - Normal Swing Ornate Axe
92 - Crushing Blow

51 - Normal Shot Yumi
91 - Armor Pierce


Work the same :/

[Mita]

Bulls is HARDLY a test.
They have (PhyResist 25-30)   (ColResist 10-15) and 0 for others.
Doing 50% direct damage to something that already has 0 resist has no change in damage.

And I did not even mention Crushing blow, which DOES NOT do direct damage. "It increases the caster's damage by 50%". That has nothing to do with damage type. Just damage. Theoretically from your example, it should have done around 75 damage.

If you want to test out the damages, ask a friend to help you or use your own alt accounts to:
1st char (spamming band self) (try different amounts of resist ALL 0's and ALL 70's to be exact)
2nd char (spamming band on 1st char)
3rd char (Test damage on 1st char)

[Mahavira]

lol, you want me to run a lab test while you're incapable of even giving me a web link? It's been fun.

[Mita]

Why link to the page you copied from? I primarily use UOGuide too. Stratics 2nd, and then controlled experiments 3rd. I've been at this a while. I know my stuff. ^_6

"Armor Pierce is primarily an archer's Special Move that was added by the Samurai Empire. Upon landing an Armor Pierce, 50% of the damage dealt is added as direct damage, with a possibility to damage the target's armor. It is very much like the Special Move Crushing Blow. By way of example, if one attacks a creature and averages 14 points of damage per hit, then the Armor Pierce attack will inflict 21 points of damage, i.e., fourteen plus half again, which is seven. This special move can be activated by setting a key macro for the appropriate primary or secondary weapon ability or double-clicking the icon in 2D. The icon will highlight red when activated. "
(UOGuide) >.>

"... 50% of the damage dealt is added as direct damage..."
NOT
"increases the caster's damage by 50% dealt as direct damage"

... and I wasn't suggesting you to go be a lab dummy. You said you tested it, and I was telling you how to correctly test it "If you want to test out the damages". If you read back, I stated that those 35 caps were PvP only. So to do this test on an environmental target voids the high-end results, past the 55 and 70 damage marks.
take that rant. :lol:

[Mahavira]

Nope, you misunderstood.

50% of the damage you do is stacked and added to your normal damage. That's the importance of the 14+7=21 example.

[Mita]

I think I will withdraw my arguement. ^_6
It appears as though I have missunderstood the wording.

 8-) props on beating me in an info duel. thats not usually done.
(will edit the damage rates above to match new formula)

[Black Mamba]

will point out armor pierce works on averages not on actual damage dealt... so... if ur bow averages 64 dmg then its 64 + 32 = 96 the damage that makes most people leave server.

it's broken because its not off of damage dealt but average damage.

osi is not setup this way in fact on osi armor pierce rarely does more than 35. on here i get consistently hit for 70-90 dmg from armor pierce and i've stopped playing. so regardless of your word banter all i know is i see AP and hear AP go off and the number 90 pops up on my screen (with all 70's resist) that = a problem period.